revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:37 am For me TC and ABS etc are more about being a div on a wet roundabout than they are about going faster on track. It's not something I think about a lot though since I don't have a bike with either and I don't do track days!

As per my Bonneville thread, I actually have a bike with tubed tyres, cable brakes, carbs that don't have CV etc. It's really good fun to ride precisely because it requires skill!

Is it better than a Panigale etc? No of course not. They just appeal differently.

And modern bikes don't require skill ? Mmmm

Slipper clutches are ace, especially on v-twins or stuff with loads of engine breaking.

If you're trying to set a lap record they probably are.

I'm not.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:47 am If you're trying to set a lap record they probably are.

I'm not.

But it only has to be your own lap record, not everyones. IT's about going 2/10ths quicker, it's about overtaking 2 riders more in a session. The difference between getting your knee down and not....

That difference lies with me.

You'd be quicker than me on the same bike, Yorick and Couchie would be quicker than you and so on.

If I gave them my bike they would be a lot more than 0.2s quicker than me. Ergo I don't need a QS to go 0.2s faster, I need more skill.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:55 am That difference lies with me.

You'd be quicker than me on the same bike, Yorick and Couchie would be quicker than you and so on.

If I gave them my bike they would be a lot more than 0.2s quicker than me. Ergo I don't need a QS to go 0.2s faster, I need more skill.

But you accept others are not you and others do different things... This bike is 100% a track bike, it never goes on the road, it's a tool for going faster on track rather than something to enjoy riding round the lanes.

As most of you know I tend towards older technology but I love the slipper clutch on my new Speed Twin- it’s nothing to do with shaving 0.2s off or whatever, but it certainly adds to the overall refinement of the bike. Arguing over the measurable benefits of new technology can be futile, but as pointed out I’m guessing no-one is missing manual advance/retard, hand shifts, or acetylene lights...

When you ask for opinions, that's what you get...if Ceri likes the idea, get it. You don't need to use it if you don't want to. But on track, you could definitely make good use of it.

Its a YES from me.

Dodgy knees wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:50 am When you ask for opinions, that's what you get...if Ceri likes the idea, get it. You don't need to use it if you don't want to. But on track, you could definitely make good use of it.

Its a YES from me.

She wont try any of the nakeds so she's never tried a QS so has no concept if she'd like it yet

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:25 am Because it frees up parts of your brain to allow yourself to do the other bits better ? Using that logic we'd all be riding 1950s bikes, why wouldn't have have Carbs, Upside down forks, sliding calipers etc.

Didn't you watch Couchy's video?

There's a lot of fun to be had from thrashing inappropriate bikes.

Just a thought.. but how would the rapid downshifting cope without a slipper clutch ??

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:09 am

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:25 am Because it frees up parts of your brain to allow yourself to do the other bits better ? Using that logic we'd all be riding 1950s bikes, why wouldn't have have Carbs, Upside down forks, sliding calipers etc.

Didn't you watch Couchy's video?

There's a lot of fun to be had from thrashing inappropriate bikes.

Couch is a fast group rider and riding in novice, i'd expect nothing less.

When i went in novice on 690s i was rarely overtaken

Dodgy knees wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:12 am Just a thought.. but how would the rapid downshifting cope without a slipper clutch ??

The QS is up only

It has a slipper clutch

Don't bother then... its rapid downshifting where there useful, UP only is a waste of time, and thats my opinion.

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:13 am

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:09 am

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:25 am Because it frees up parts of your brain to allow yourself to do the other bits better ? Using that logic we'd all be riding 1950s bikes, why wouldn't have have Carbs, Upside down forks, sliding calipers etc.

Didn't you watch Couchy's video?

There's a lot of fun to be had from thrashing inappropriate bikes.

Couch is a fast group rider and riding in novice, i'd expect nothing less.

Exactly the point. Having fun on a totally inappropriate bike.

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:25 am

weeksy wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:13 am

Horse wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:09 am

Didn't you watch Couchy's video?

There's a lot of fun to be had from thrashing inappropriate bikes.

Couch is a fast group rider and riding in novice, i'd expect nothing less.

Exactly the point. Having fun on a totally inappropriate bike.

Well kinda, he was having fun because he was destroying novices on road bikes who'd ridden to the track. Yes his bike was inappropriate but i'm not sure that's relevant in this conversation apart from "you can have fun on inappropriate bikes" but Mrs Weeksy doesn't have an inappropriate bike, doesn't want one and wouldn't even sit on one, let alone turn a wheel on one on a racetrack.

I'm very much an advocate of inappropriate bikes on track, i've ridden a 690 single on track dozens of times in the last 5 years, but like i say, i'm not my wife...

If the bike is track only,I can't see how a quick shifter is a bad thing.

My only concerns would be,how useful is a retro fit? Maybe ok,maybe less than ok?

I'd not fit one for the road,but by the same token,if the bike came with one I'd at least try it. One's balls do not fall off when found to be using any sort of rider aids. In this case,I don't see balls being a problem anyway.

The ZH2 has all the electronic toys and if I owned one,I'd definitely play with them all and use what suited me on any given day.

If the lady wants one,then stick one on and if she doesn't like it,or it doesn't work as it should,stick it on the bay.

Skub wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:53 am If the lady wants one,then stick one on and if she doesn't like it,or it doesn't work as it should,stick it on the bay.

It was more a suggestion from Tricky rather than her wanting it... I'd love to get her on a bike with more gizmos for a session or 2 just to see if it helped her and increased confidence etc. But finding a 600 with these things is impossible. Even the new R6 it transpires only comes with an UP QS not a down/blipper. So unless she wants to join the arms war and go for something like a 1000 then it's not actually possible.

I'd love KTM to make a 790 Supersports as in honesty that really could be 100% her ideal bike as she loves Twins and doesn't want too much power. So something like that, well it's just the holy grail really isn't it.

Sorry, perhaps (trying to be brief, so not multi-quoting), my point got lost. I'm not arguing against fitting a QS.

You talked about tech advances. I was going to say that didn't apply with my Beemers, although actually BNW brought EFI and ABS, and alternative suspension, adjustable ergonomics, and aerodynamics, to the mass market.

But my Beemers didn't have performance extras.

Whenever I went on track (not often), I had two aims:
- stay on
- not be last in the group (even if starting at the back of the group)

I used 'road' techniques; I wasn't practised at trail braking so, in the little time available, didn't bother. Instead just focused on other aspects such as firmer, later, braking.


However, for road riding, try something like an MZ TS250 (albeit on decent tyres). Keeping speed up becomes a challenge.

Beemers are fucking odd though, the old R100RS was great with that fairing and they handled beautifully, but they never did anything track orientated until the S1000R Yes they did the Boxer Cup and Power Cup but when they wanted to win stuff in open competition they went all conventional.

As for the QS, why not? If she likes it, and it increases her confidence, that'll bring her lap time down.

If she doesn't like it, punt it on.