Real life Scalectrix.......

[Bigjawa]

For the record, I find Christian Horner to be a thoroughly unlikeable individual. Having said that, he is clearly very, very good at his job (probably partly due to him not giving a sh1t what people think of him). However compared to Jos Verstappen, CH is a cute little fluffy bunny. How can someone whose only real claim to fame is that he fathered a multiple World Champion carry so much weight within Red Bull to the point that he is trying to push CH out of the organisation?

Somebody really needs to sit down with Jos and remind him where the real power lies, and it ain't with him. Tell him to butt out of Red Bull's affairs, and if he tries to use Max as a bargaining chip, remind him that Max has a contract with RB until 2028 and tell him that will be rigidly enforced. Also remind him that any one of half the grid could be plugged into Max's seat in the current Red Bull and they would deliver a Driver's World Championship.

Jos is classic "U13 league dad" but I think there's a split between the Thai faction of the parent company and the Austrian side. The Thais like Horner and the Austrians like Marko, but the Thais see Marko as a geriatric and want him away. Jos had allied himself with Marko, who still has enough sway in the team to stop Horner telling him to get out to fuck.

Newey is the real power. Without him, they're nowhere. He could well jump if the rumours of the 2026 engine development going badly are true. As it is, Max, Leclerc, Sainz, Lewis, Russell, Alonso, Ricciardo, Norris could win in that car.

Stroll could win in it FFS!

[mangocrazy]

When does the bidding war for Adrian Newey start?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I don't think Newey will go anywhere for money, that's not what he's about.

He already has plenty of cash and could obviously get an enormous paycheque wherever he went. He's the only person on the grid who's won titles with three different teams. Lewis has 7, Newey led designs/teams have 12 drivers' and 13 constructors'

But...everything I've read about (and by) him suggests he'd move for the challenge and the autonomy, not for the money. I don't know if Ferrari would ever give him the latter of those, no man is ever bigger than the team, but it'd be interesting to see what happens.

I could see him at the new Audi/Porsche/VW team maybe - start from nowhere and build it your way.

[mangocrazy]

He's 65 years old - I suspect that he'll want to devote more time to his other interests as time goes by. He really doesn't need to prove anything to anybody, least of all himself. So I suspect that whoever wants to retain his services will have to allow him to become a free(ish) agent within an increasingly loose corporate structure.

Unless what he wants to do is to continue designing championship winning cars until he falls off his perch, of course.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Pretty much the only reason Red Bull started doing America's cup stuff and the Aston Martin Valkyrie was because Newey wanted to do something else!

That's how valuable he is to the team, they'll embark on multi million pound programmes doing other stuff just to keep him on board.

[mangocrazy]

Does he have any particular ties to either Marko or Horner? I know it was Horner who pursued him and persuaded him to join Red Bull. Interested to know if there is actually a power struggle going on within Red Bull which side of the divide he would align to. Or would he just head off and find a different challenge? Or retire?

[Mr. Dazzle]

He didn't want to join RB at all, they wooed him over a long period and made all kinds of promises about autonomy etc. It's all in his autobiography ("How to Build a Race Car") which is very good.

You may recall he was going to go to Jaguar at one point (which ironically, is now RB) but sacked it off, partly because he didn't want to be constrained by the corporate culture.

[mangocrazy]

He didn't want to join RB at all, they wooed him over a long period and made all kinds of promises about autonomy etc. It's all in his autobiography ("How to Build a Race Car") which is very good.

You may recall he was going to go to Jaguar at one point (which ironically, is now RB) but sacked it off, partly because he didn't want to be constrained by the corporate culture.

Yeah, I'm aware of most of that, but just wondering what side of the fence he'd come down on if the rumours of RB power struggles are true. Or if he'd just walk.

On a side note, it's really annoying that Alpha Tauri have rebranded as RB, as it means you can't really shorten Red Bull to RB without being misleading.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Part of the reason he left Williams was because he couldn't be arsed with the infighting between Patrick Head and Frank Williams. Ditto McLaren, CBA with Ron Dennis and politics.

I suspect he'd just walk!

Great position to be in TBF and something everyone should aspire to in life. Being genuinely very good at what you do at the fundamental level and thus being immune to sides and politics

[mangocrazy]

Yeah, Ron Dennis was a famous micro-manager. Can't imagine Newey enjoyed that much. As you say, his abilities and value to any team means he transcends the stuff most of us have to put up with. I'm very interested to see how this plays out.

[Bigjawa]

You may recall he was going to go to Jaguar at one point (which ironically, is now RB) but sacked it off, partly because he didn't want to be constrained by the corporate culture.

Jaguar was basically a Ford proxy though?

I remember them having Lauda in charge for a while and the old goat saying he was faster than Irvine. Then they put him in the car and he lasted about three corners?

Newey is a bona fide genius. You can't constrain an intellect like that.

Horner is talking about suing people. And Jos has has been banished again if Reddit is anything to go by.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I suspect he'd just walk!

Great position to be in TBF and something everyone should aspire to in life. Being genuinely very good at what you do at the fundamental level and thus being immune to sides and politics

Called it!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cv2rd53gnr6o

"Red Bull have confirmed their design chief Adrian Newey will leave the team in early 2025. Newey, regarded as the greatest designer in the history of Formula 1, told Red Bull last week he wanted to leave in the wake of the controversy involving allegations about team principal Christian Horner"

Ferrari apparently the favourites to sign him, Newey and Sir Lewis will be a potent mix. Double GOATing.

[KungFooBob]

Jordan and Newey have succeeded in pulling off a major coup in extricating the designer from a contract that ran to the end of 2025 and included a 12-month “non-compete” clause that should have meant he was not available to any other team until 2027 at the earliest.

Does that mean he knows where the bodies are buried?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'd have thought he's a big enough dog that his contract would also hold RB to account on various things, so he has the option to say they're c*nts and he's allowed to leave?

A bit like how drivers have competitiveness clauses? If the car's underperforming they can go. Newey probably has clauses on "you're making me look bad" or words like that?

[KungFooBob]

The article mentions he's leaving because of the Horner accusations.

Is he pissed because of the accusations or the fact they didn't stick?

[Rockburner]

Someone finally beat Red Bull in a fair fight! That should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

[mangocrazy]

Someone finally beat Red Bull in a fair fight! That should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Taking nothing away from Lando's achievement, but a fortunately timed safety car dovetailing perfectly with McLaren's strategy also helped.