Debanking

[Mr. Dazzle]

They did give him an explanation - too poor.

[DefTrap]

The motivation is another story though isn't it.

The banks don't have to tell you why they've closed your accounts, they may even be forbidden by law to tell you. They may put you on a list that other banks have access to and who may in turn refuse to do business with you.

To be fair, the reason you lost your account is probably 'reasonable'. I had the exact same situation with an insurer - they decided they didn't want to provide an insurance any more because of my locale - it could have been uncomfortable. It was 'reasonable' to them, they'd been advised not to renew that type of business and for them it was a fait accompli, a business decision that they just applied and moved on with, they have plenty of other customers. Of course -I- thought it was unreasonable, but computer-says-no and that's it. I was able to find another insurer, maybe next year they'll -all- decide to victimise ex-pats.

[Screwdriver]

It is the thin end of the wedge.

A bank (doesn't matter which) decides it doesn't like someone (doesn't matter who, doesn't matter why). They are "persona non grata" and they "deperson" them. Without a bank account, you cannot function as a person. No rent, no mortgage, no salary, no groceries, no mobile, no internet, no nothing. It is catastrophic for the individual concerned.

So much so that previously I would expect such punishment to be illegal or at the very least to have some sort of legal process. But no, behind the scenes largely driven by the WEF, mechanisms have been put in place (PEP for example) which allow this targeted depersoning to occur.

And yes, a vicar has literally been "debanked" for saying men cannot become women...

As for Dur Farage, I might not like him, I might not like his views but we NEED people like him (like Trump, Musk, Shapiro, Rogan, etc,) to keep the balance or the scales are tipped severely in a direction we might NOT like. That direction is of course towards complete totalitarian authority.

For the record, Natwest (who own Coutts) did not swap Farage over to a standard account, that possibility was not even offered to him until he started kicking up a fuss. Also, rather frighteningly, he was declined by half a dozen other banks which tells me this is an organised attempt to silence a political activist. The powers that be didn't want br*xit, Farage was instrumental in our democratic process and needs to be removed before "they" can reverse it... (watch this space).

Also regarding the so called minimum deposits and/or account status, that has not changed according to Farage who does (unsurprisingly) have millions in the bank and has had such for decades. The likely culprit is PEP but this post will be too long if I delve into that cesspit of ESG.

First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out
-- Because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out
-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me
--and there was no one left to speak for me.


Now that little ditty ascribed to pastor Martin Niemöller appears in any number of varieties depending on the narrative (this is my version!). The "original" does not really exist but it is interesting to note many websites contain edited versions (shades of "Nineteen Eighty-four") so here's the least edited version I could find: https://marcuse.faculty.history.ucsb.ed ... 47gWeb.pdf

Interesting to note the "American" version at the holocaust memorial starts off with "Socialists" because we know how much they like to claim to be persecuted when it it they currently who are persecuting us!

Finally I suggest we should be horrified that an unelected, unconstituted body can make politically motivated decision which will have a HUGE effect on our so called democracy. It is censorship and authoritarian bullying of the highest order. It places power into the hands of the rich and powerful in a way which targets the entire populace (that's you and me!) individually and personally.

For example if you shop at Wickes now, you are not welcome if you do not believe men can be women. So far so what, I'm off to BandQ. I do not take political or socio economic instructions from a fucking ironmonger. But if I did happen to shop there and there was a transgender/transphobic baiting asshole looking for an argument (you know, like they all do) then I would be in trouble because I do not have a thought filter. I think it, I say it. One slip and I might be reported for <some new made up law nobody thought could possibly affect them> and debanked.

Only needs to happen to a few people here and there as the WEF flexes its new political muscle and suddenly we have a new political leadership. An entirely new global political authoritarian regime. Remember, you will own nothing and you will be happy.

Well, I guess we'll have to see about that....

[Yambo]

To be fair, the reason you lost your account is probably 'reasonable'.

To be fair, that's a load of bollox.

My account was closed because Santanfuckingder's communications both with their customers and internally is a pile of shite. They are considered to be one of the worst banks on the high street and I certainly won't dispute that. My being an ex-pat had only a little bit to do with my accounts being closed and mostly it was down to Santanfuckingder staff incompetence and maybe a system with a bit of AI input.

They were quite happy with me not living in the UK for 16 years and after re-opening my account (because the fuck up was all their's) would have been happy for me to continue banking with them regardless of where I was living. The only reason I was able to fight the closure and get my accounts re0opened (so that I could close them was again down to their incompetence.

I was going to sue them and I'd have won, simply because they wouldn't have thought of sending someone to court to argue their case. They are incompetent. They can't even send a letter recorded delivery!

[Noggin]

OK. Interesting. So the common opinion appears to be "who give a shit" or "Farage deserves it" or some such. A telling one being "it's the banks money (!) they can do what they want".

OK so what happens if for example, a vicar says something like "men cannot become women"? Can their bank just close their account? Is that ok?

But - if it's in the banks T&C's that you have to have a certain amount of money, surely they are totally within their rights to change his account from a Coutts one to a bog standard one??

So on that score, this is a non story

To be contrary, I'd have to say it's a very fucking big deal and very fortunate for us plebs that it has happened to a 'celeb' like Farage who can make lots of noise about it.

Santanfuckingder closed my account last year. You cannot believe the hassle that involves (a bit more hassle for me as I don't live in the UK and didn't at the time have a UK address). I have since found out that Santanfuckingder have been closing numerous ex-pat accounts and while I was lucky (Ha!) in that I got things sorted it took the best part of six months with little or no income. Others have not been as fortunate as I was.

The more media attention that is given to this, the better. Pooh pooh it all you want because it's Farage, who cares but it's not just Farage and it may be you tomorrow. I'm quite happy to expand but I'll need a few days to cover all the issues.

But nah, it's not a big deal. Until it happens to you.

But, this is a completely different situation. I don't know if that bank had in their T&Cs something that let them do this or they just did it. If the first, they should have been required to give you proper notice and time to sort things (I understand quite a few UK banks are doing this to expats but most seem to have communication and warning). If it wasn't in their T&Cs and they didn't communicate (which is what I've understood happened) then you are 100% right to be vitriolic about them and I totally support you in that.

But it's still not the same as the Farage situation - and they didn't 'close' his account, so he would still have access to everything and I'd guess they moved any direct debits etc with the account so just loss of face to him rather than an actual problem

[Mr. Dazzle]

Turns out, it's ChatGPT

Computer says he's a dodgy fucker financially and who are we to argue with "the system"

https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-f ... ot-coutts/

Coutts did not reply to emails from POLITICO.

That leaves either a genuine anti-Brexit conspiracy — or something far more mundane and technical as the motivating factor, a banking expert at a British think tank told POLITICO. They were granted anonymity in order to speak freely.

“Lots of banks are using AI and open source intel and adverse media screening, and flagging their own customers for enhanced due diligence,” the expert said. “But a lot of it is that the computer says I can't bank you, and they stop. And they can't say, well the computer said we couldn't because we paid for this fancy software and we don't want to expose that it doesn't work.”

But "too often ‘Enhanced Due Diligence’ means using Google,” said Martin Walker, director for banking and finance at the Center for Evidence Based Management.

These sorts of screenings have a disproportionate effect on PEPs or other high-profile individuals because their names appear so much more frequently in the media, often linked to flagged or contentious activities just due to the nature of their jobs.

With banks increasingly edgy about being deemed in breach of money laundering regulations, and Coutts itself having already been fined £8.75 million in 2012 for breaches, this often sees them err on the side of caution to avoid being slammed with operation-ending fines. This is especially the case if questionable activity is related to yet-to-be-clearly-regulated sectors, such as cryptocurrency, which Farage has in recent months been prominently endorsing.

[DefTrap]

For example if you shop at Wickes now, you are not welcome if you do not believe men can be women.

Where TF do you get these gems from? Is there a sign up at the door?

[Mr. Dazzle]

For example if you shop at Wickes now, you are not welcome if you do not believe men can be women.

Where TF do you get these gems from? Is there a sign up at the door?

I think it's just a thought experiment

As for the Vicar - not heard of that story until now, mostly 'cause "my feed" doesn't seem to have much trans stuff in it. From the looks of it he didnt' just say a man can't be a woman. He specifically wrote to the bank to complain about their pride month advertising. Dunno how I feel about it TBH and of course I dunno what he actually said to the bank. I do feel like people need to drop their entitlement sometimes, companies don't have to do business with you and you're not completely free to chat shit.

P.S. If you think banks and companies flexing their might for the purposes of social engineering is a new thing I do kinda have to ask where you've been for the last 1000 years!

[Yambo]

It is the thin end of the wedge.

A bank (doesn't matter which) decides it doesn't like someone (doesn't matter who, doesn't matter why). They are "persona non grata" and they "deperson" them. Without a bank account, you cannot function as a person. No rent, no mortgage, no salary, no groceries, no mobile, no internet, no nothing. It is catastrophic for the individual concerned.

So much so that previously I would expect such punishment to be illegal or at the very least to have some sort of legal process. But no, behind the scenes largely driven by the WEF, mechanisms have been put in place (PEP for example) which allow this targeted depersoning to occur.

If you are prosecuted in a court of law, your guilt has to be proved, beyond a reasonable doubt by the prosecution. You do not have to prove your innocence, indeed it may be nearly impossible to do so.

For some reason, known only to the 'system' or some scrote, a flag comes up on your bank account. Nothing is done about it so the system does what it is programmed to do and closes your account. It may be that the system thought a transaction was possibly fraudulent, money laundering is a useful trigger but no investigation is carried out, the police or any other authority is never informed. You are de-banked. Because it was possibly an illegal activity, your name goes on a list. Nobody else wants anything to do with you even though you have done nothing wrong.

You question the bank and because the relevant transaction was possibly illegal the bank will not tell you why the account was closed. If they did so, they may be breaking the law by 'tipping you off' so they simply will say nothing. The bank, or an indivual employee or a 'system' has been accuser, judge, juror and executioner in your non-trial. The presumption of innocence has gone out of the window. That is not a good thing, even for Farage.

As Screwd has noted, without a bank account you cannot function.

In my case, I would have welcomed an proper investigation, even being investigated by the police. I could prove my case (although I shouldn't need to do so). I sent them a Subject Access Request under the FoI Act and demanded to know if they had in fact contacted the police or any other authority and if I had been blacklisted. They decided at one point that I had withdrawn the Request. I hadn't and I eventually got the information but due to their incompetence they had actually broken the law by not giving me the information. They gave me a back hander (a bribe) to keep me quiet.

[Yambo]

For example if you shop at Wickes now, you are not welcome if you do not believe men can be women.

Where TF do you get these gems from? Is there a sign up at the door?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... klash.html

Daily Mail, sorry but the 'gem' comes from the CEO.

[Cousin Jack]

OK. Interesting. So the common opinion appears to be "who give a shit" or "Farage deserves it" or some such. A telling one being "it's the banks money (!) they can do what they want".

OK so what happens if for example, a vicar says something like "men cannot become women"? Can their bank just close their account? Is that ok?

I quite liked the old days, when banks were a careful about who they allowed to have accounts.

Now it is your uman right to have an account all the nere do wells have one, rip off the banks, and we all have to pay.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm sure there's more too it, but this tickled me.

The comments have been blasted by Elon Musk and swimmer Sharron Davies

What do Noel Edmunds and Alan Shearer think?

[Yambo]

OK. Interesting. So the common opinion appears to be "who give a shit" or "Farage deserves it" or some such. A telling one being "it's the banks money (!) they can do what they want".

OK so what happens if for example, a vicar says something like "men cannot become women"? Can their bank just close their account? Is that ok?

I quite liked the old days, when banks were a careful about who they allowed to have accounts.

Now it is your uman right to have an account all the nere do wells have one, rip off the banks who accept that this is going to happen and do nothing about it, and we all have to pay.

FTFY

[DefTrap]

As for the Vicar - not heard of that story until now, mostly 'cause "my feed" doesn't seem to have much trans stuff in it. From the looks of it he didnt' just say a man can't be a woman. He specifically wrote to the bank to complain about their pride month advertising. Dunno how I feel about it TBH and of course I dunno what he actually said to the bank. I do feel like people need to drop their entitlement sometimes, companies don't have to do business with you and you're not completely free to chat shit.

And I would absolutely do the same if it was my business. "Thanks for the information, please feel free to eff off".
The number of middle-aged people who have grown up "knowing their rights" and getting it completely wrong is frankly staggering. If you have a shitty opinion, feel free to keep it to yourself, because you can. If you decide not to, great, now we can all see what you're actually like, and now you have to deal with the consequences.

And I agree about the vicar - if you're hooked on tranny-news and butt-hurt, the algorithm is going to show you more and more tranny boo-hoo stories. Self-generating conspiracy nirvana.

[DefTrap]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... klash.html

Daily Mail, sorry but the 'gem' comes from the CEO.

Yeah great, but the DM isn't on my news feed (do I need to say why?) and oddly enough despite the words coming out of a Wickes CEO mouth there's no reason for me to know that before popping into the nearest DIYstore for a pack of screws. In either case, you have to go out of your way 'to know'.


I'm off down the pub later, but I must check if the landlord has posted his views on trannys somewhere.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I can imagine they might have called his bluff.

"Stop it or you'll lose a customer"
"Bye"

[Cousin Jack]

In the good old days your bank manager was your friend. Free, usually sound, advice, and a firm word in your ear if you persisted in sailing close to the wind.

It wasnt helpfull for the feckless, or the criminals, but normal people were ok. And if you fucked up you were cast into the darkness.

All seems fair to me.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Screwd and Yambo are right though, not having a bank is much more of a problem today. Literally unemployable in a lot of places/roles. You can't shop either in many places, loads of stuff here in MK just doesn't take cash.

I'd be surprised if there aren't laws to prevent you being debanked entirely but I've not looked. I also suspect there's no law saying you have the right to a good bank account.

[porter_jamie]

To be fair, the reason you lost your account is probably 'reasonable'.

TSantanfuckingder's communications both with their customers and internally is a pile of shite. They are considered to be one of the worst banks on the high street...

sounds shit, but if only they were on the highstreet we have zero banks left now and there was around 5 when i moved in 17 years ago

[Cousin Jack]

Screwd and Yambo are right though, not having a bank is much more of a problem today. Literally unemployable in a lot of places/roles. You can't shop either in many places, loads of stuff here in MK just doesn't take cash.

I'd be surprised if there aren't laws to prevent you being debanked entirely but I've not looked. I also suspect there's no law saying you have the right to a good bank account.

IIRC everone has a right to a 'basic' bank account. Not a good one, but one that will allow you to have your salary paid in, and allow you to draw it out.