revtothelimit - motorbike forum

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:03 pm

iansoady wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:04 am Sounds as though the OP was from the US (hit the nearside* front bumper) where they have ridiculously wide streets. I can't think of an urban road in my area which would allow a U turn in a 4x4.......


* although is near / off side related to the side of the road we drive / ride on ie nearside in the US would be the RHS?

U turns by the dozen here... usually a five point turn since the road is narrow - with parked vehicles either side, there's only just room for something like a fire engine to get down it.

I assume the car was parked on the 'wrong' side of the road and so swung left first.

That's what I am assuming from the pictures. Guess the driver scanned the side mirror, and just pulled out.

Deadpool2 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:06 pm
That's what I am assuming from the pictures. Guess the driver scanned the side mirror, and just pulled out.

Of course, with the driver on the kerbside, there's little chance of seeing a bike approaching via the interior mirror and once the vehicle starts to change angle, then the driver is trying to see through the forest of headrests and pillars. It's not nearly so easy to see a bike approaching as most riders assume.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:20 pm It's not nearly so easy to see a bike approaching as most riders assume.

This - we're nigh-on invisible and need to ride with that in mind.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:20 pm Of course, with the driver on the kerbside, there's little chance of seeing a bike approaching via the interior mirror and once the vehicle starts to change angle, then the driver is trying to see through the forest of headrests and pillars. It's not nearly so easy to see a bike approaching as most riders assume.

In the car,I'd have the window down and stick my head out to see,but you can guarantee few car drivers will be arsed,or even think to do that.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:20 pm

Deadpool2 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:06 pm
That's what I am assuming from the pictures. Guess the driver scanned the side mirror, and just pulled out.

Of course, with the driver on the kerbside, there's little chance of seeing a bike approaching via the interior mirror and once the vehicle starts to change angle, then the driver is trying to see through the forest of headrests and pillars. It's not nearly so easy to see a bike approaching as most riders assume.

I was wondering what I would do, other than ride really slow, and keep observant, wheels turned etc. But I guess it really easy to get distracted at the start or end of a ride etc and just miss a small clue.

Skub wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:57 pm In the car,I'd have the window down and stick my head out to see,but you can guarantee few car drivers will be arsed,or even think to do that.

You can't do that if you're parked facing the wrong way - you're on the wrong side of the car...

And have you clocked where the B pillar is in modern cars? It's actually ALONGSIDE the driver to offer side impact protection. It can actually make it just about impossible to lean forward, out of a window AND look behind.

Throw in a C and maybe a D pillar which diminish the size of the rear side windows to almost nothing.

Mirrors have shrunk to improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency, whilst the 'new technology' doesn't seem to be aimed at seeing at awkward angles - the couple of cars I've driven with reversing cameras also seem to focus on a close-up view of what's behind the rear bumper.

Modern cars are more akin to a buttoned-up tank these days!

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:28 pm

Skub wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:57 pm In the car,I'd have the window down and stick my head out to see,but you can guarantee few car drivers will be arsed,or even think to do that.

You can't do that if you're parked facing the wrong way - you're on the wrong side of the car...

And have you clocked where the B pillar is in modern cars? It's actually ALONGSIDE the driver to offer side impact protection. It can actually make it just about impossible to lean forward, out of a window AND look behind.

Throw in a C and maybe a D pillar which diminish the size of the rear side windows to almost nothing.

Mirrors have shrunk to improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency, whilst the 'new technology' doesn't seem to be aimed at seeing at awkward angles - the couple of cars I've driven with reversing cameras also seem to focus on a close-up view of what's behind the rear bumper.

Modern cars are more akin to a buttoned-up tank these days!

Hence the discrepancy in NCAP ratings between occupants and vulnerable road users.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:28 pm

A Giraffe wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:57 pm I'd have the window down and stick my head out

You can't do that if you're parked facing the wrong way - you're on the wrong side of the car...

There's another aspect to the car facing away on the right - if the rider is towards the centre of the road, they're closer to the offending vehicle, less reaction time, etc.

Deadpool2 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:02 pm Its all in the UK and I cant do quotes. Basically a Merc 4x4 which was parked was turning around. Driver was next to the kerbside and basically pulled out and took out the motorcylist. The latter was in the middle of the road as its seems a narrow street with parked vehicles either side. Didn't look good for the riders leg, unfortunately

That does actually sound like an unusual one, and difficult to anticipate. Assuming the driver was parked on the opposite side of the road, I'd expect someone u-turning from there to stop half way and take another look. In that case the rider would normally get the chance to swerve if need be. I guess the driver may have done so and something like a pillar obscured their view, but even so to try to complete the whole manoeuvre in one fluid move, so that the bike had no chance to see and avoid, would be rare, I'd say - unless they were driving a getaway car or something.

The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that the 4x4 did pause to look, but didn't see, and the rider assumed the driver had seen him and was waiting to let him go past.

Scootabout wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:25 pm

Deadpool2 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:02 pm Its all in the UK and I cant do quotes. Basically a Merc 4x4 which was parked was turning around. Driver was next to the kerbside and basically pulled out and took out the motorcylist. The latter was in the middle of the road as its seems a narrow street with parked vehicles either side. Didn't look good for the riders leg, unfortunately

That does actually sound like an unusual one, and difficult to anticipate. Assuming the driver was parked on the opposite side of the road, I'd expect someone u-turning from there to stop half way and take another look. In that case the rider would normally get the chance to swerve if need be. I guess the driver may have done so and something like a pillar obscured their view, but even so to try to complete the whole manoeuvre in one fluid move, so that the bike had no chance to see and avoid, would be rare, I'd say - unless they were driving a getaway car or something.

More and more drivers in London pull u-turns pretty much without warning, and in front of other vehicles forcing them to stop.

Happened to me in the car just a couple of days ago. Stupid thing was that having turned around, the guy had to reverse back into the space he'd just pulled out of, because there wasn't room for both cars to pass.

I moved out of London in 1990 when I got fed up with despatching in the city, and took my services off to rural Kent to do long distance stuff for another five years, and moved back in 2015 (ironically to a location no more than few hundred yards from a flat I lived in in the mid-80s) and my personal radar has uprated the u-turn from a minor annoyance to a major threat.

It's part of a general decline in driving standards and impatience which includes running red lights. I'd be interested to know what that's happened but my guess is that it's a combination of frustration at congestion but also an influx of eastern European drivers who simply don't have the same driving standards.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:27 am
More and more drivers in London pull u-turns pretty much without warning, and in front of other vehicles forcing them to stop.

... my personal radar has uprated the u-turn from a minor annoyance to a major threat.

Worth knowing, thanks. I don't ride or drive very much in central London any more, so I'm not as much in tune with 'driving culture' as I used to be when I commuted.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:27 am
It's part of a general decline in driving standards

Purely personal opinion, I think that driving standards dropped substantially during 2020 lockdown 1 and have never recovered to pre-pandemic levels.

Horse wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:10 pm

The Spin Doctor wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:27 am
It's part of a general decline in driving standards

Purely personal opinion, I think that driving standards dropped substantially during 2020 lockdown 1 and have never recovered to pre-pandemic levels.

They've been declining for years.

Personally i think it's a mixture of things, not limited to:
The growth in volume of traffic,
The decline in volume of traffic police
The growth of "remote" enforcement
The increase of the amount of "stuff" people have in their heads (social media, keeping up with the latest fads etc)
Cars becoming ever safer and more cossetting to be in
Etc

Bringing back national service and taking away all that political correctness rubbish should fix it

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:48 am Bringing back national service and taking away all that political correctness rubbish should fix it

That, and imperial measurements.

I hadn't been aware but apparently there has been a "consultation" re imperial measurements. One question was: "If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items: i) in imperial units ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent.” Notice anything missing?

iii) I don't purchase stuff, mummy does it for me

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:20 pm iii) I don't purchase stuff, mummy does it for me

Likely nanny, in JRM's case.

Apparently our 'energy man without a computer' , while others were at a COP meeting, asked them to open up the fireplace in his room so he could have a coal fire in his office. The buildings people said 'no'.

Utter whelk.