By-elections

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

But yeah the terrible Tory government is probably Labour and Liberal fault for not upping their game and taking advantage of this massive black hole of ability

It does appear that the Labour Party want to blame the electorate for not voting for them, they seem to have forgotten it is a popularity contest and that they have to come up with policies that are more popular than the Conservatives, pointing at Boris Johnson shouting "Liar!" isn't going to win any votes, everyone already knows he's a liar.

[Mussels]

I'm guessing yes, icba to follow the details of individual parties. I see Labour MPs on picket lines despite Starmer saying not to, that tells me he doesn't have control. He was also blocked from reducing union influence in selecting labour leaders, another indication they still have too much power.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

The Labour party were originally the political wing of the Unions, why shouldn't they have a say in how the party is run given how much money they put into it?

[Mussels]

The Labour party were originally the political wing of the Unions, why shouldn't they have a say in how the party is run given how much money they put into it?

The party, workers rights and the unions have changed a lot since then. Unions do not care about the average working person and voters know that.
Unions can drag the party into obscurity if they want, if Lib-dems can get their act together then it's not beyond reality.

[mangocrazy]

The Labour party were originally the political wing of the Unions, why shouldn't they have a say in how the party is run given how much money they put into it?

The party, workers rights and the unions have changed a lot since then. Unions do not care about the average working person and voters know that.
Unions can drag the party into obscurity if they want, if Lib-dems can get their act together then it's not beyond reality.

Yes, things have changed and unions have less power than before due to arseholes like Jeff Bezos who will not permit unionisation of his workforce. The trope of the unions running the country should have been put to bed after the miner's strike. Unions are there for a reason - to uphold the rights of the ordinary working man and woman. Your view of unions is completely the opposite of reality.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Here's a nice policy that Labour can have for free

Everyone who works in the UK is legally guaranteed a pay rise equal or above inflation every year

[cheb]

How did the results compare will the polls projected results? Anyone been arsed enough to compare them?

[DefTrap]

The polls predicted a "complete disaster".
Boris will be saying later that it was in fact only a "total disaster".

[Mr Moofo]

Here's a nice policy that Labour can have for free

Everyone who works in the UK is legally guaranteed a pay rise equal or above inflation every year

The public sector wouldn't like accepting that ...

[Cousin Jack]

The Labour party were originally the political wing of the Unions, why shouldn't they have a say in how the party is run given how much money they put into it?

The party, workers rights and the unions have changed a lot since then. Unions do not care about the average working person and voters know that.
Unions can drag the party into obscurity if they want, if Lib-dems can get their act together then it's not beyond reality.

Yes, things have changed and unions have less power than before due to arseholes like Jeff Bezos who will not permit unionisation of his workforce. The trope of the unions running the country should have been put to bed after the miner's strike. Unions are there for a reason - to uphold the rights of the ordinary working man and woman. Your view of unions is completely the opposite of reality.

Yes and no.
Unions are useful, and necessary.
Over-powerful unions led by politically motivated activists are dangerous.

Good unions achieve stuff without strikes. Lazy unions threaten a strike as a bargaining ploy, not as a last resort.

[mangocrazy]

Yes and no.
Unions are useful, and necessary.
Over-powerful unions led by politically motivated activists are dangerous.

I'd agree with that, but it does depend on your definition of 'Over-powerful unions led by politically motivated activists'. Arthur Scargill and the NUM, yes. Mick Lynch and the RMT, no.

Good unions achieve stuff without strikes. Lazy unions threaten a strike as a bargaining ploy, not as a last resort.

Like all good bargaining tactics, the threat of strikes can be as effective as actually calling one. But at some point, when the other side are taking the piss, there comes a time when you have to put up or shut up. The RMT have reached this point.

[Pirahna]

My understanding is that rail workers (not sure who, where or when, numbers etc) accepted a 0% pay increase last year and the year before. They want a pay increase this year. They're also under threat of redundancies with their job titles/descriptions changed slightly and the new recruits being payed substantially less.

[Horse]

a 0% pay increase last year and the year before.

under threat of redundancies with their job titles/descriptions changed slightly

new recruits being payed substantially less.

And pension changes too?

But, apart from that ...

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

They're not even asking for inflation, they're only after 7% when inflation is 9%

[Greenman]

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to by how much the tories will lose today's two by-elections?

Probably about the same amount they will win by at the next general election!

[Greenman]

This government is as greasy as an oiled pig. Black is White. Wrong is Right.

At this point Boris would have to be caught throwing it up a minor for it to spur the party faithful into think maybe, just maybe, he's not the right guy for the job.

Don't tempt him, their all at it, he probably already has!

[Yorick]

This government is as greasy as an oiled pig. Black is White. Wrong is Right.

At this point Boris would have to be caught throwing it up a minor for it to spur the party faithful into think maybe, just maybe, he's not the right guy for the job.

Don't tempt him, their all at it, he probably already has!

Maggie fucked the miners

[mangocrazy]

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[demographic]

These by elections seem to have shown the two wildly different type of electorate that have turned away from the conservatives (or perhaps more specifically Boris but as there's been so many high up conservatives trollied out to support him, its bound to have tainted the brand by now) and if they throw money at the traditional Conservative areas it works against them for the red wall areas and if they throw money at the red wall 8t goiles against them with the traditional conservatives.

By these results that are an absolute pasting in anyones book its looking like the current crop of Conservatives aren't pleasing anyone.
The economy is falling behind and the only one worse is Russia.
Once the cracks start to show, people start to pay attention.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

And Labour still.won't win a General Election until the goons running realise if they want to win they have to have policies that are popular with the majority of people entitled to vote, here's another one for them - no work permits granted to non British citizens while there are unemployed British citizens in Britain.