revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Yorick wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:37 pm What day is it ?

Half past four.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:10 pm

Yorick wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:37 pm What day is it ?

Half past four.

Yes please. Milk and sugar
.

Yorick wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:37 pm

The Spin Doctor wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:32 pm

Yorick wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:25 pm 5 words.

The boring old farts club.

Don't forget... we've a place for you

What day is it ?

Ooh I know this one!

Thursday? Yes, let's have a beer!

Horse wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:26 pm

Rockburner wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:24 pm "How to ride without pain"

There you go - 5 words.

Ya reckon?

https://www.devittinsurance.com/guides/ ... er-riders/

I'm sure you've heard my experiences with IAMers.

Rockburner wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:52 pm

Horse wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:26 pm

Rockburner wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:24 pm "How to ride without pain"

There you go - 5 words.

Ya reckon?

https://www.devittinsurance.com/guides/ ... er-riders/

I'm sure you've heard my experiences with IAMers.

But there's - surely - no harm in reminding us

Where's the old popcorn emoji when you need it?

Having read through the thread i can see its a lot of "thats boring", "sucks the fun from riding" type of posts...... when you actually read the first post by Spin from my point of view as a CBT Instructor teaching kids to try and keep them safe and alive and enjoying bikes its highly relevant rather than just at the advanced level.

I would say about 80% of that first post is part of the CBT syllabus in one way or another .... the rest is upping the speed and road types which are more relevant to bigger bikes but most of it is highly relatable to even 50-125cc but the consequences of a mistake can be a lot higher on the bigger bikes due to the higher speed .... IMO of course

The trouble with Spins advertorial is that it appears to ignore the reason that some people ride bikes in the first place, so trying to teach people to ride bikes in the safest possible manner is always going to meet resistance. I can't express what it is but I guess it's similar to the reason that racers ride the TT instead of circuit racing. I've no problem with rider education but there is a thin line between rider education and preaching.

Dickyboy wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:56 am The trouble with Spins advertorial is that it appears to ignore the reason that some people ride bikes in the first place, so trying to teach people to ride bikes in the safest possible manner is always going to meet resistance. I can't express what it is but I guess it's similar to the reason that racers ride the TT instead of circuit racing. I've no problem with rider education but there is a thin line between rider education and preaching.

I think even riders at the TT want to finish, and to do it as well as they can.

Bigyin wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:24 pm Having read through the thread i can see its a lot of "thats boring", "sucks the fun from riding" type of posts......

Beancounter did a session with me, years ago. At the end, he said "I've realised that I can't just arive at a corner and deal with it, I need to plan".

As much as looking, thinking and planning might be considered 'boring', that actually comes from the decisions someone takes.

My USAF training mentor said "the trick is to find the balance between being scared and bored".

Perhaps add in 'using a dose of honesty'? Shit does happen, it's rarely unpredictable. It's up to the individual to make their own decisions.

What a boring answer

Bigyin wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:24 pm I would say about 80% of that first post is part of the CBT syllabus in one way or another .... the rest is upping the speed and road types .... IMO of course

'Spiral Curriculum', Sir. Revisit the same aspects, but with different success criteria.

Instead of 'advanced', use 'higher standard'?

I often give the challenge 'so what is actually 'new' and only introduced at advanced level?'

Not a lot.

And, FWIW IMHO, if there is anything particularly beneficial for safety, then it should be included in L training.

F@ck me, another boring answer

The problem with describing AR techniques and practise, is that it IS boring and dry.
However, using said techniques on the road will make you a more confident and probably quicker and safer road rider.
Something as simple as having your eyes on 'main beam, rather than dip' can make a huge difference to your riding.

Demannu wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:53 am The problem with describing AR techniques and practise, is that it IS boring and dry.

Yup. Far better to learn by experience.

And even better to survive the experience

Taking [enduring?] training is learning from others' experiences. Far less risky

Horse wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:31 pm

Demannu wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:53 am The problem with describing AR techniques and practise, is that it IS boring and dry.

Yup. Far better to learn by experience.

And even better to survive the experience

Taking [enduring?] training is learning from others' experiences. Far less risky

He's right though. The classroom stuff is a bit dusty. Bike training is like sex education. The practical sessions are more fun than the theory sessions.

Count Steer wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:45 pm

Horse wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:31 pm

Demannu wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:53 am The problem with describing AR techniques and practise, is that it IS boring and dry.

Yup. Far better to learn by experience.

And even better to survive the experience

Taking [enduring?] training is learning from others' experiences. Far less risky

He's right though. The classroom stuff is a bit dusty. Bike training is like sex education. The practical sessions are more fun than the theory sessions.

Doesn't have to be. The problem is mostly that the theory element of rider training is still stuck in 50s teaching technique - most instructors learn how to deliver CBT as a 'by rote' exercise from THEIR instructor, so that's how they continue to deliver, and the plod are... well, the plod and the way they were taught MUST be good enough for everyone else.

But even when running a classroom session - such as the one I will be delivering to Devon IAM on Weds evening - don't have to be boring. There are bits where I do stand at the front of the class and talk, but around half is much more interactive than that. The difficulty is - more often than not - that people are reluctant to join in! They WANT to be "told what to do" and not to have to work it out for themselves, although that's by far the best way to learn a lesson. And there's one exercise that REALLY tests riders' knowledge of the road, and even the most qualified rarely get it all right without having to think about it.

That session - called 'Crash Course (in how not to)' has got thumbs-up from almost everyone who attended it - I delivered it at Brands Hatch on the Ride Skills days for six years.

Demannu wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:53 am Something as simple as having your eyes on 'main beam, rather than dip' can make a huge difference to your riding.

Actually, it won't. You need to know what you're looking for, where to look for it, why to look for it, and how you're going to use that information... all that comes first... and that is theory!

The Spin Doctor wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:09 pm

Demannu wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:53 am Something as simple as having your eyes on 'main beam, rather than dip' can make a huge difference to your riding.

Actually, it won't. You need to know what you're looking for, where to look for it, why to look for it, and how you're going to use that information... all that comes first... and that is theory!

Skirt.

Dickyboy wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:56 am The trouble with Spins advertorial is that it appears to ignore the reason that some people ride bikes in the first place, so trying to teach people to ride bikes in the safest possible manner is always going to meet resistance. I can't express what it is but I guess it's similar to the reason that racers ride the TT instead of circuit racing. I've no problem with rider education but there is a thin line between rider education and preaching.

It was actually a mental exercise is reducing Roadcraft to the barest minimum.

But riding's a damn sight more fun when we know what we're doing, and have the skills and knowledge to get to the end of the ride in one piece... consistently.

Of course 'safety' meets resistance... that's because so many people spend so much time telling anyone who's malleable enough to be swayed that "safety? Nah, it's boring". That's preaching - there's no evidence to back up what they are telling people, yet they are expecting to be believed. It doesn't matter what field you look at, there are always some people who think that way.

I'm quite happy to talk about why I ride to anyone who cares to ask... but as you didn't I'll tell you anyway. The reason I ride bikes is because I enjoy the challenge of doing the job well. And something that kept me alive - not without some very near misses though - was realising that each day's courier riding was a LOT more fun if both I and the bike made it to home time in one piece. I've lost track of the number of riders who've had a crash and packed it in.

Bigyin wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:24 pm I would say about 80% of that first post is part of the CBT syllabus in one way or another .... the rest is upping the speed and road types .... IMO of course

And I wouldn't disagree.

Whenever someone says "forget all that stuff you learned to pass the test and now REALLY learn to ride" I remind them that 90% of the skills they will use 90% of the time were taught on basic training, and they learned most of that on CBT.

Mostly post-test training is about developing the understanding of how to use those skills in a way that a) adds benefit and b) won't kill us.

Count Steer wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:45 pm The classroom stuff is a bit dusty.

Not always.

This bunch seem to be having a reasonable time.
(From the left: journalist, advanced instructor, genuine member of the public, traffic cop)

They all seem amused, or bemused? Whatever, they're not bored