*** SOBS *** Why I recommend yellow lights!

[slowsider]

Honestly....it never occurred to me that you WOULDN'T indicate when overtaking! Just goes to show what seems like the obvious thing to do for one person is totally the opposite for someone else.

Why wouldn't you indicate when overtaking? I haven't thought about it that much TBH cause I've always just done it.

Who are you indicating to? I've used to do it occasionally when I thought the person behind me might be planning an overtake.

You're overtaking: don't you want to bless the overtakee with a bit of information?

If I thought the person behind might be planning an overtake, I'd be staying put. Bikes can be hard to see

[Cousin Jack]

Who are you indicating to? I've used to do it occasionally when I thought the person behind me might be planning an overtake.

I indicate if there is ANYONE who MIGHT benefit. Always assuming I am not overtaking an autonomous vehicle there is always the driver in front who might notice.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The person behind and the person I'm overtaking. Neither or them are THAT likely to connect the dots but some chance is better than none. The person I'm overtaking might see the indicator come on and notice me...who knows.

Its also a habit I'm not in any rush to break. I always indicate on roundabouts too for similar reasons.

[Noggin]

Honestly....it never occurred to me that you WOULDN'T indicate when overtaking! Just goes to show what seems like the obvious thing to do for one person is totally the opposite for someone else.

Why wouldn't you indicate when overtaking? I haven't thought about it that much TBH cause I've always just done it.

Who are you indicating to? I've used to do it occasionally when I thought the person behind me might be planning an overtake.

I indicate for the person I'm overtaking so they know (if they are aware I'm there!) and anyone behind so they know too

Might not make any difference at all, but I figure, a bit like Mr Dazzle and CJ that it's better to give some info in case they are looking than none at all

Not sure where where I learnt to but it's probably because I do in the car!!

[Scootabout]

Honestly....it never occurred to me that you WOULDN'T indicate when overtaking! Just goes to show what seems like the obvious thing to do for one person is totally the opposite for someone else.

Why wouldn't you indicate when overtaking? I haven't thought about it that much TBH cause I've always just done it.

There's a risk your intention might be misinterpreted. Such as, for example, if you're close to a junction. And there's an argument that, if the only road user you need to signal to is the car being overtaken, the indicator is superfluous because they can see what you're doing by your position.

[wheelnut]

I generally don’t indicate when I’m overtaking unless I think there’s someone behind who may try and overtake me.

In normal circumstances what’s the point? The overtakee won’t notice, and if you’re overtaking in a sensible place then there’s nowhere he can go but straight on. Get past him and crack on.

[wheelnut]

And there's an argument that, if the only road user you need to signal to is the car being overtaken, the indicator is superfluous because they can see what you're doing by your position.

That’s my approach. I try and ride as if it doesn’t matter if he’s seen me or not. In fact I assume they haven’t and try and ride in a way that it’s irrelevant.

[slowsider]

if the only road user you need to signal to is the car being overtaken, the indicator is superfluous because they can see what you're doing by your position.

If they look.

if you’re overtaking in a sensible place then there’s nowhere he can go but straight on.

Pretty big if.

[wheelnut]

if you’re overtaking in a sensible place then there’s nowhere he can go but straight on.

Pretty big if.

If we haven’t got the wherewithal to not overtake in stupid places then showing an indicator is the least of our worries.

[The Spin Doctor]

You could equally imply that every time a bike successfully passed a "loaded" junction safely is pure luck and the driver just didn't move out during that 5-8 second period of maximum danger.

I could... but the maths wouldn't add up.

Almost every driver looks. Almost every driver sees almost every bike.

[weeksy]

When you go for MTB coaching, do you think it's all spur of the moment or - perhaps - the coach might have taken a bit of time to think about what works and how to get you improving?

Tbh to compare motorbikes and MTB is complete madness, certainly in terms of what I ride.

No, perhaps I wasn't clear.

It's the principle that improvements- whether knowledge and understanding, or skills, don't just happen.

The type of vehicle is irrelevant. It could be any other activity, such as golf or swimming.

But why do improvements need to happen? Why can't you just get from A to B ? Why is there this thing where you and spin think people must improve? Must be seen more? Must be, whatever.

If I'm riding a bike down a canal path I don't need to improve, it's just riding a bike down a canal path.

Same as walking the dog, there doesn't have to be an improvement does there?

What about driving to Tesco, why do I need to get better at it?

I take training at MTB because I race, I want to go faster to improve as a racer and improve my position in the standings, if I were just cycling for a pint of milk I'd have no desire or requirement to get better.

Riding a bike is just a vehicle, that's it, like a van, car, or double decker bus, there's not always a need to get better at it

Skills improvement isn't mandatory.

[Trinity765]

I generally don’t indicate when I’m overtaking unless I think there’s someone behind who may try and overtake me.

In normal circumstances what’s the point? The overtakee won’t notice, and if you’re overtaking in a sensible place then there’s nowhere he can go but straight on. Get past him and crack on.

This was my philosophy and it got me through my advanced test and lots of other advanced riding, including a police rider from the same school as the below. No one ever picked me up on it.

Until, as I mentioned, a friend with the same philosophy did some advanced riding this year with the police and the instructor asked what other people are most likely to see - answer - a flashing yellow light. New philosophy - signal as much as you can without confusing everyone (as Scootabout says). Worth a go in my opinion.

There's a risk your intention might be misinterpreted. Such as, for example, if you're close to a junction. And there's an argument that, if the only road user you need to signal to is the car being overtaken, the indicator is superfluous because they can see what you're doing by your position.

[Trinity765]

I bought myself a Weise Vision jacket last year and on my first outing with it, on a shady avenue, national speed limit, a car pulled out in front of me. We were the only traffic, it was a straight road and the driver sat at the junction for a while so I assumed that they were waiting for me. At the last moment they pulled out and I managed to slip between the car and the curb. It was the closest shave I've had for sometime.

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorc ... rod/424587

I don't indicate much - for turns, yes, but not when overtaking. A friend did some advanced riding with the police this year and he was told to use his indicator for overtaking and when my friend asked why he said because blinking, yellow lights stand out. So I've adopted this now - signalling when overtaking - not because I giving information but because I'm simply more visible.

The Weise jacket only really works at night - I think I may even blend in more with the background in some conditions - as above.

I had a very similar incident where I thought the car was waiting for me to pass. I was riding a very pink blackbird, headlight on, I was wearing a florescent yellow motorway jacket, and there was just me on the main road and the car in a t-junction to the left waiting to pull onto the main road

I was only just able to squeeze between the car pulling onto the road and the kerb on the other side of the road from my side!!! Luckily it was a 50mph road and I wasn't hooning as there was a 40mph coming up!!

Never worked out how he didn't see me (or hear me!) but then it was about 7am, so maybe he wasn't awake!!

This was a national speed limit road and seconds before this scenario, I was exceeding it. The moment I saw the car at the junction, I backed off as I always do when I see a car sitting at a junction - I'm simply not going to gun it towards a potential collision and this was a dappled shaded road - I'm haunted by the well known picture of a bike that is practically invisible going over a bridge that goes around the interweb. Even so, I got a bloody surprise when they did pull out.

[Horse]

You could equally imply that every time a bike successfully passed a "loaded" junction safely is pure luck and the driver just didn't move out during that 5-8 second period of maximum danger.

I could... but the maths wouldn't add up.

Almost every driver looks. Almost every driver sees almost every bike.

Somewhere tucked away I have a set of crash stats from the late 1970s that I used for the 'top ten' crashes part of a course.

About number 7 was 'bike pulled out in front of car'.

[Horse]

This was a national speed limit road and seconds before this scenario, I was exceeding it. The moment I saw the car at the junction, I backed off as I always do when I see a car sitting at a junction - I'm simply not going to gun it towards a potential collision and

A friend died in a collision with a driver turning out or across (I never heard exact details).

The driver also took out 3 other bikes.

They were on a club run, nowhere near the front of the group.

[Trinity765]

Sorry Spin, I have derailed this from yellow headlights to overtaking

I set off from Abergavenny on my first observed ride with the police and headed north, after about 5 miles we took a right onto a 50mph road. In front was a car which, if riding on my own I would certainly have overtaken straight away. However, I had a policeman behind me and I wasn't sure if he expected me to stick to the limit and in my hesitation, I missed the overtake as we got to double whites. After a while, the car noticed us and decided to speed up.

My observer asked me about it when we stopped. He asked if I'd noticed the car speeding up once he knew we were there and I said that I had. He asked me why I hadn't overtaken it before the doulbe lines and I explained. He then said that the best thing to do is overtake a car before it even knows you're there. I believe I do this when I'm not feeling very observed and I've also seen other bikers do it and it's beautiful!

[slowsider]

if you’re overtaking in a sensible place then there’s nowhere he can go but straight on.

Pretty big if.

If we haven’t got the wherewithal to not overtake in stupid places then showing an indicator is the least of our worries.

Any number of people struggle to negotiate a curve in the road without investigating the scenery. I admire your optimism.

[Horse]

Any number of people struggle to negotiate a curve in the road without investigating the scenery.

Although it's a very common type of bike crash, for most riders it doesn't happen often.

Unfortunately, even with a low 'getting it wrong' % rate, you'll typically encounter hundreds of corners during each ride.

Whereas overtaking is also high up the stats, but most rides won't include hundreds of overtakes.

[slowsider]

This was a national speed limit road and seconds before this scenario, I was exceeding it.

It's possible that when he first saw you he assessed that you were far enough away to emerge, and you covered some of the ground more quickly than he expected. It's also possible that he didn't see you, or didn't look, or didn't care.

Did you move laterally ? Cue Horse and z-line.

[slowsider]

Any number of people struggle to negotiate a curve in the road without investigating the scenery.

Although it's a very common type of bike crash, for most riders it doesn't happen often.

Unfortunately, even with a low 'getting it wrong' % rate, you'll typically encounter hundreds of corners during each ride.

Whereas overtaking is also high up the stats, but most rides won't include hundreds of overtakes.

I'm not disagreeing with that. Exposure x consequences?