They shouldn't have to justify themselves on the basis of being in an RCT (or not) or anything else, people doing certain things SHOULD be allowed to say "that rule doesn't apply to us" because their circumstances are different.
That may be unpalatable but that's the reality IMO.
My arguement here isn’t about them having different permissions than Joe Soap- they have to, they are trying to run a country ( albeit badly).
My frustration, as a reasonably well educated person, is that they today released a statement about an RCT they were participating in ( that nobody had heard of until today) ( and that transport have since announced they’re not part of, despite being included in the original press release) and then effectively selected what side they are on. Twice.
The better play here would have been to not announce anything about a trial- it’s just yet another thing they’ve had to u-turn on.
Yes I agree they should have not mentioned the trial. It just smells like a mechanism for justifying why they can behave differently. Shoulda just behaved differently.
Docca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:54 pm
It’s one disgrace after another. Delta could have been given a much bigger swerve - but here we are again. Count yourself lucky if you are relatively untouched by it all.
No it couldn’t Docca. Whether now, next week or next month - it’s coming. As is the next variant. Like it or not, the world is a hugely interconnected place and the virus will do what it does. It doesn’t care about our little part of the world, it’s got several billion inhabitants to work through and we’re just a tiny part of it.
It’s the height of summer and the kids are just breaking up. There’s a valid argument to say trust in the vaccine now (and it seems to working) and get on with life.
It’s a big gamble though (and the world is watching to see what happens) and I wouldn’t like to have to make the decision.
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:06 pm
There should be a different rule for them. They are running the country ffs. OK so one of them has COVID, well so long as it doesn't kill them and they don't infect others they should carry on running the country.
These individuals are so important (no I am not being sarcastic) that it is worth putting in place additional safeguards so they can carry on doing their job. Even if that job means telling Joe Public they need to self isolate because we can't all individually have a team dedicated to managing our infection.
I dunno about you chaps but I seriously doubt if anyone would even notice if I turned up for work or not. If one of our top politicians is out of action, either their work in managing our country is not being done to its fullest extent or they shouldn't be doing that job.
I don't see why it is so difficult for people to accept that certain individuals have more important roles to play which actually do entitle them to special treatment.
I’m not sure politicians are as indispensable as you make out. Boris was off for a month with Covid at the height of the pandemic. Did anyone notice?
Politicians make policy, I would imagine they actually ‘do’ very little. If they are wfh, then the NHS, the police, the armed forces and the bin men will still do what they always do.
Their role, to some extent, is to lead, and that includes leading by example. They seem to be going out of their way to get up people’s noses at the moment.
Docca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:54 pm
It’s one disgrace after another. Delta could have been given a much bigger swerve - but here we are again. Count yourself lucky if you are relatively untouched by it all.
No it couldn’t Docca. Whether now, next week or next month - it’s coming. As is the next variant. Like it or not, the world is a hugely interconnected place and the virus will do what it does. It doesn’t care about our little part of the world, it’s got several billion inhabitants to work through and we’re just a tiny part of it.
It’s the height of summer and the kids are just breaking up. There’s a valid argument to say trust in the vaccine now (and it seems to working) and get on with life.
It’s a big gamble though (and the world is watching to see what happens) and I wouldn’t like to have to make the decision.
I get the frustration. I get that we are robbing Peter to pay Paul no matter what, however we could have acted differently on Delta.
Herd immunity eventually vs herd immunity too quickly and we are over run with all sorts of health pressures.
30% of our already depleted staff are off today because they’ve been pinged. It’s just relentless.
Docca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:54 pm
It’s one disgrace after another. Delta could have been given a much bigger swerve - but here we are again. Count yourself lucky if you are relatively untouched by it all.
No it couldn’t Docca. Whether now, next week or next month - it’s coming. As is the next variant. Like it or not, the world is a hugely interconnected place and the virus will do what it does. It doesn’t care about our little part of the world, it’s got several billion inhabitants to work through and we’re just a tiny part of it.
It’s the height of summer and the kids are just breaking up. There’s a valid argument to say trust in the vaccine now (and it seems to working) and get on with life.
It’s a big gamble though (and the world is watching to see what happens) and I wouldn’t like to have to make the decision.
I get the frustration. I get that we are robbing Peter to pay Paul no matter what, however we could have acted differently on Delta.
Herd immunity eventually vs herd immunity too quickly and we are over run with all sorts of health pressures.
30% of our already depleted staff are off today because they’ve been pinged. It’s just relentless.
30% isolating, not 30% infected with Covid …definitely not 30% seriously ill..the issue isn’t the affect of ‘freedom day’ it’s the affect of the stupid track and trace app flagging people fir no reason ( my brother got pinged for shopping in Asda..no way was he closer than 2m to the same infected person for 15 minutes ..he knows it’s Asda because his wife was already isolating and he hadn’t left the house all week except to go there )
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:06 pm
There should be a different rule for them. They are running the country ffs. OK so one of them has COVID, well so long as it doesn't kill them and they don't infect others they should carry on running the country.
These individuals are so important (no I am not being sarcastic) that it is worth putting in place additional safeguards so they can carry on doing their job. Even if that job means telling Joe Public they need to self isolate because we can't all individually have a team dedicated to managing our infection.
I dunno about you chaps but I seriously doubt if anyone would even notice if I turned up for work or not. If one of our top politicians is out of action, either their work in managing our country is not being done to its fullest extent or they shouldn't be doing that job.
I don't see why it is so difficult for people to accept that certain individuals have more important roles to play which actually do entitle them to special treatment.
I’m not sure politicians are as indispensable as you make out. Boris was off for a month with Covid at the height of the pandemic. Did anyone notice?
Politicians make policy, I would imagine they actually ‘do’ very little. If they are wfh, then the NHS, the police, the armed forces and the bin men will still do what they always do.
Their role, to some extent, is to lead, and that includes leading by example. They seem to be going out of their way to get up people’s noses at the moment.
Docca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:54 pm
There is an arguement that if they had elected to ignore to isolate it would have been the final straw in the permission slip of excuses people would have had to self-govern.
That is exactly the problem. People want the politicians to live by the same rules as them, I'm saying politicians (and certain other people) shouldn't have to always live by the same rules as the general population in this situation.
They shouldn't have to justify themselves on the basis of being in an RCT (or not) or anything else, people doing certain things SHOULD be allowed to say "that rule doesn't apply to us" because their circumstances are different.
That may be unpalatable but that's the reality IMO.
If the rules the important people have made to keep all of us safe are really there to keep all of us safe, how much more important is it for the important people to follow the same rules to keep the important people safe?
Why do they have to follow the same rules? They want to achieve the same outcome, but that doesn't mean they have to follow the same rules.
- I'm not allowed to own a gun; People around me don't get shot very often
- The Army have lots of guns; People around the Army don't get shot very often.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:25 pm
Why do they have to follow the same rules? They want to achieve the same outcome, but that doesn't mean they have to follow the same rules.
- I'm not allowed to own a gun; People around me don't get shot very often
- The Army have lots of guns; People around the Army don't get shot very often.
Two very different sets of rules, same outcome.
Their situation, as regards the virus, is the same as the rest of us. If it's important for us to follow the rules they put in place to protect us from the virus, it's also important for them to follow the same rules.
Unless the virus knows to leave them alone because they're important. Or they have something better to keep them safe from the virus. In which case, why haven't they told us about this "something better"?
Saga Lout wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:00 pm Or they have something better to keep them safe from the virus. In which case, why haven't they told us about this "something better"?
You mean like Matt HandsFaceArseCock's idea of wearing a face mask in the office*?
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:25 pm
Why do they have to follow the same rules? They want to achieve the same outcome, but that doesn't mean they have to follow the same rules.
- I'm not allowed to own a gun; People around me don't get shot very often
- The Army have lots of guns; People around the Army don't get shot very often.
Two very different sets of rules, same outcome.
That's your argument?
Soldiers rules don't allow them to shoot without exceptional circs., not when it suits them. Mostly
Docca wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:54 pm
It’s one disgrace after another. Delta could have been given a much bigger swerve - but here we are again. Count yourself lucky if you are relatively untouched by it all.
No it couldn’t Docca.
Indeed.
A lockdown does not in itself reduce total infections*. A lockdown lowers infection peaks, often at the expense of a longer period over which infections take place. In other words, with a lockdown the area under the curve is no lower than without a lockdown.
* well I suppose we could all stay at home for ever and never see anyone else ...
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
irie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:12 pm
A lockdown does not in itself reduce total infections*. A lockdown lowers infection peaks, often at the expense of a longer period over which infections take place. In other words, with a lockdown the area under the curve is no lower than without a lockdown.
And with the rapid roll out of vaccination, that delay of infections has probably reduced the death toll and number of people suffering with the serious long Covid issues.
You think Boris is in combat, or even on the front line? Evidently even he doesn't, after the whiplash-inducing u-turn.
But the gubbermint HAS decided who gets different rules: those actually on the front line. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... cumstances
Mr Moofo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:16 pm
Does that include knowing your adviser / driving to Barnard Castle to complete off the record deals for vaccine production at GSK?
Edited for the sake of reality (possibly, allegedly etc.)
I doubt that the movers and shakers of GSK are anywhere near Barnard Castle. All the big wigs in the big plush offices along the A40
Mr Moofo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:28 am
I doubt that the movers and shakers of GSK are anywhere near Barnard Castle. All the big wigs in the big plush offices along the A40
No it couldn’t Docca. Whether now, next week or next month - it’s coming. As is the next variant. Like it or not, the world is a hugely interconnected place and the virus will do what it does. It doesn’t care about our little part of the world, it’s got several billion inhabitants to work through and we’re just a tiny part of it.
It’s the height of summer and the kids are just breaking up. There’s a valid argument to say trust in the vaccine now (and it seems to working) and get on with life.
It’s a big gamble though (and the world is watching to see what happens) and I wouldn’t like to have to make the decision.
I get the frustration. I get that we are robbing Peter to pay Paul no matter what, however we could have acted differently on Delta.
Herd immunity eventually vs herd immunity too quickly and we are over run with all sorts of health pressures.
30% of our already depleted staff are off today because they’ve been pinged. It’s just relentless.
30% isolating, not 30% infected with Covid …definitely not 30% seriously ill..the issue isn’t the affect of ‘freedom day’ it’s the affect of the stupid track and trace app flagging people fir no reason ( my brother got pinged for shopping in Asda..no way was he closer than 2m to the same infected person for 15 minutes ..he knows it’s Asda because his wife was already isolating and he hadn’t left the house all week except to go there )
I’m not challenging that; it’s really annoying, isn’t it? Yet the same ping for a policeman or whomever insisting they isolate can be ignored ( because of something to do with soldiers and guns if I’m to understand the really tenuous conversation above ).
It’s still 30% down for being responsive, supportive and possibly able to save lives etc.
£37bn well spent then I’d say. That’s not to factor in the cost of employees not working/businesses closing etc.
Re: restrictions. It isn’t black and white (!!) it isn’t totally open or lockdown forever- to suggest as such is just silly.
However, fully opening up whilst there is an exponential increase and more admissions etc etc etc is in my view really worrying.
Happy freedom day: can I assume everyone has ditched wearing their mask now?
Docca wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:26 pm
Happy freedom day: can I assume everyone has ditched wearing their mask now?
I reckon they must have, as I've just rung for an appointment with my dental hygienist and the earliest is end of Sept. Must be a lot of unmasked folk paranoid about the state of their gnashers now they're out on display.
