Tyre trackday debates. Mmmm

[weeksy]

No, I don’t think it is the same. Using sports treaded tyres that will keep their temperature and offer a lot more feel and feedback makes a lot more sense than fitting tyres that are unsuitable. If you’re not riding reasonably quickly on slicks they won’t actually be as good, let alone offer any advantage. If, as an example, someone is lapping 10 to 20 seconds a lap off a fast club time (which isn’t unusual on trackdays) they’ll get far more benefit from a good sports/sports touring tyre.

How do you explain Mcevoys times in the link in post 1 ?

[Noggin]

There’s few people doing trackdays that will ever really be consistently finding the limits of decent road/sports tyres. To actually get the extra benefit of slicks you seriously need to be pushing on. Take a look at the fastest laps from a recent club race....and then compare your lap times on a trackday....and if you’re not getting close then you’re not going to get any benefit from slicks. Treaded tyres can actually be quicker for many, as they warm up faster and usually give more feel and feedback than slicks.

Like I said. It's what suits a person. If you are fast enough to keep a set of trackday slicks hot, then there's no harm in trying them

I was told by an instructor to fit them and my times at Cadwell have no comparison to the fast guys!! But having followed his instruction, I still had no comparison to the fast boys, but I was faster, more confident and WAY more comfortable than before


Maybe slicks have a certain reputation for older riders (ok, around my age, but I was a late starter) as they did used to need a lot of work and speed to get and keep hot - the friend that told me not to use them raced at a time when slicks were like that (he's only four years older than me)

Modern tyres aren't so tricksy, so I'd think it was a bit nonsensical to dismiss them for a mid to high inters person because they aren't 'necessary'?

Half the trick bits, and even standard bits, fitted to bikes aren't 'necessary', but some like them to say they have and use them; others like them because they instill confidence and good feeling from the bike!!!

[singlesman]

Apologies, never opened your link in the original post
Pretty sure all the tyres they test,(not sure about the Pirelli) are track day/ road race spec slicks, designed to operate over a larger temperature range and not quite as hard to keep in the correct temperature range as their (arguably) top end tyres.
Probably the perfect place to start if you want to give slicks a go.

[weeksy]

However even if we equate them to being 'similar' there's still a massive difference of 2.5s between the best and the worst in this test.. With a guy who's quick but not race pace, so we could easily assume that someone else could have a difference between tyres too.

I'm not looking for an argument here... just an interesting little debate.

[Yorick]

Here's a thought. If you told Mrs Weeksy that the new tyres made it impossible to crash, do you think she'd go faster?

Some folk just have a max speed they're comfortable with.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Some folk just have a max speed they're comfortable with.

That's me these days, I seem to have lost that desire to go quicker, this doesn't bother me, I'm happy going the speed I'm going, though I'm definitely slower than I was 20 years ago.

[weeksy]

Here's a thought. If you told Mrs Weeksy that the new tyres made it impossible to crash, do you think she'd go faster?

Some folk just have a max speed they're comfortable with.

would be interesting to find out the answer

I absolutely agree with the 2nd part, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to use either technology, training or indeed even just tyres to change that.

[Yorick]

Here's a thought. If you told Mrs Weeksy that the new tyres made it impossible to crash, do you think she'd go faster?

Some folk just have a max speed they're comfortable with.

would be interesting to find out the answer

I absolutely agree with the 2nd part, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to use either technology, training or indeed even just tyres to change that.

I remember you saying she wouldn't benefit from mega brake M/C as she's not a late braker. Might be same with tyres.

[weeksy]

Here's a thought. If you told Mrs Weeksy that the new tyres made it impossible to crash, do you think she'd go faster?

Some folk just have a max speed they're comfortable with.

would be interesting to find out the answer

I absolutely agree with the 2nd part, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to use either technology, training or indeed even just tyres to change that.

I remember you saying she wouldn't benefit from mega brake M/C as she's not a late braker. Might be same with tyres.

It's certainly possible she wouldn't benefit... But that's tough to say... I'm certainly interested in reading the answers though. To an extent i equate them more to MTB than i do motorbikes, simply because i have more data for that.

So taking into account i have ridden a downhill trail say 50 times, with my best time being 2min 00 and my worst being 2mins 20.... The question is, why is that... sometimes it's conditions, sometimes it's tryes, sometimes it's the bike, sometimes it's just me.

It doesn't matter that some Pro rider can do it in 1min 00, that's not the discussion is it... The discussion is about my time, not someone elses. In the same account it's about her laps, not what Chris Walker can do.

To a great extent it was a fairly innocent discussion to start with, just a mild musing really.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I always think that's one of the amazing things about professional bike racers, that they can do lap after lap with such consistent times, even at my best, my lap times had big variations, indicating there was a fair amount of something having to feel just right for me to get a decent (for me) lap time.
When I did some drag racing my quarter mile times would vary by about half a second, but I could never work out what I was doing to cause that variation, btw, half a second was a big enough difference to be 1st or nowhere.

[weeksy]

I always think that's one of the amazing things about professional bike racers, that they can do lap after lap with such consistent times, even at my best, my lap times had big variations, indicating there was a fair amount of something having to feel just right for me to get a decent (for me) lap time.
When I did some drag racing my quarter mile times would vary by about half a second, but I could never work out what I was doing to cause that variation, btw, half a second was a big enough difference to be 1st or nowhere.

I had great consistency at Mallory, i could ride a 8 lap race and every lap would be within 0.2-0.3s from eachother. At Donington they would be a little further out, but still 0.7s covering the fastest to the slowest.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I always think that's one of the amazing things about professional bike racers, that they can do lap after lap with such consistent times...

...having to feel just right for me...

I think this is the difference. Pros are so experienced at going fast the basic "riding fast" bit is taken care of automatically. Therefore they've got enough mental capacity left over to really think about what they're doing and hit every marker, every shift point etc. There is no 'feeling'.

A bit like how you don't struggle to turn the radio up when you're driving but a fresh learner is afraid to let go of the wheel.

[Skub]

I always think that's one of the amazing things about professional bike racers, that they can do lap after lap with such consistent times, even at my best, my lap times had big variations, indicating there was a fair amount of something having to feel just right for me to get a decent (for me) lap time.
When I did some drag racing my quarter mile times would vary by about half a second, but I could never work out what I was doing to cause that variation, btw, half a second was a big enough difference to be 1st or nowhere.

It's largely what makes the difference between a racer and a champion,that almost robotic ability to be consistently quick over a season.

I remember a quote from Eddie Lawson at his peak who said,"I don't know why I'm faster than the other guys and what keeps me awake at night is,I'll not know how to fix it if I start going slower".

[Dave@ERT]

Noggin, at no point have I said ‘not necessary’ ?? I’ve merely said that if you run slicks at a steadier pace they won’t actually be at the ideal temperature, whereas if you run a treaded sports tyre it will be !?...having the correct tyres would actually ‘install more confidence and give you a good feeling’ !! Having said that, if you want to run slicks then feel free...I’m not judging anyone, just offering advice having used slicks/cut slicks/inters for many years.
Weeksy, in the link you posted the tester was actually lapping within about 5 seconds odd of Walkers times, which is actually pushing on a bit, so there wouldn’t be a huge problem in keeping them hot. As to the gains made over the OE tyres ??...it doesn’t really give any detail to make much of a valid comparison ?

[Noggin]

Noggin, at no point have I said ‘not necessary’ ?? I’ve merely said that if you run slicks at a steadier pace they won’t actually be at the ideal temperature, whereas if you run a treaded sports tyre it will be !?...having the correct tyres would actually ‘install more confidence and give you a good feeling’ !! Having said that, if you want to run slicks then feel free...I’m not judging anyone, just offering advice having used slicks/cut slicks/inters for many years.
Weeksy, in the link you posted the tester was actually lapping within about 5 seconds odd of Walkers times, which is actually pushing on a bit, so there wouldn’t be a huge problem in keeping them hot. As to the gains made over the OE tyres ??...it doesn’t really give any detail to make much of a valid comparison ?

Like I've said, I think there is an element of getting the correct slick. I could keep the ones I had hot and was only doing Cadwell in 1.54.

Race slicks I doubt I could keep hot. Trackday slicks I could. And they made a million miles of difference to how the bike felt

Equally - I only know what I've experienced as I have zero technical knowledge bar what a guy who sells road/track/race tyres told me 4 years ago!! LOL

I'm only posting to put a different viewpoint really

[Dave@ERT]

No probs ! If it works for you, keep doing it !

[Noggin]

No probs ! If it works for you, keep doing it !

I think that's why I keep replying. My older more experienced friends kept saying I was too slow for slicks but the instructor and, previously, the tyre guy said that the right ones would make a difference. And they were right!

Often there is one view or many similar views on here because, in general, you all have similar history, knowledge, experience

I am not knowledgable, but I do have a different experience!

[G.P]

I can spend half a lap thinking about a single corner on the previous lap and how I'm going to take it much better this lap, in the meantime, going miles slower

[Dodgy69]

I reckon road tyres these days are pretty grippy things. Maybe improved braking and quicker power would make a bigger difference on track.

[weeksy]

I reckon road tyres these days are pretty grippy things. Maybe improved braking and quicker power would make a bigger difference on track.

The brakes on the zx6r are astounding. The power can only be what it is.