Mod 1 - failed

[Nordboy]

As I have an inside seam to match that of a 2 yr old child, when I was on the big job bikes I'd be shitting it every time I had to u turn one, it was a real mental thing. Have I dropped bikes in work, bloody right, plenty. But then when I went on the driving school and did my instructors course I literally spent a day at an off road area practising all sorts of slow maneuvers.

Even slow riding in a straight line can help with the use of the back brake, keeping the revs higher and feathering the clutch. I'm one of those riders who uses the back brake quite a bit, such as pulling out of junctions etc (not all but some). In the old days using the brake was frowned upon, I actively encouraged police riders to use it when doing slow stuff.

But practise, and like was said, don't just look over your shoulder, turn your head and look 50 or 100 m past where you want to end up.

Good luck, if that's all you failed on, you're doing well.

[Supermofo]

The funny thing about all of this is I reckon I've probably done a couple of feet up U turns in about the last 3 years, I just don't need to do it mainly by heading in the right direction!

[Rockburner]

The funny thing about all of this is I reckon I've probably done a couple of feet up U turns in about the last 3 years, I just don't need to do it mainly by heading in the right direction!

It is one of those things that a lot of riders do think isn't useful any more.... but - when you DO end up needing to do one, it's bloody handy!

[Rockburner]

As I have an inside seam to match that of a 2 yr old child, when I was on the big job bikes I'd be shitting it every time I had to u turn one, it was a real mental thing. Have I dropped bikes in work, bloody right, plenty. But then when I went on the driving school and did my instructors course I literally spent a day at an off road area practising all sorts of slow maneuvers.

Even slow riding in a straight line can help with the use of the back brake, keeping the revs higher and feathering the clutch. I'm one of those riders who uses the back brake quite a bit, such as pulling out of junctions etc (not all but some). In the old days using the brake was frowned upon, I actively encouraged police riders to use it when doing slow stuff.

But practise, and like was said, don't just look over your shoulder, turn your head and look 50 or 100 m past where you want to end up.

Good luck, if that's all you failed on, you're doing well.

A good point made here is that riding can be broken down into smaller bits for practise and learning: the u-turn uses slow-speed control which you can practise independently, in a straight line (as Nordboy said). When you're happy with that and it's semi-automatic, then use that skill to start the turns, figure 8s are best, start large diameter and work your way gently down to smaller and smaller turns, eventually you're just doing u-turns.

[Supermofo]

The funny thing about all of this is I reckon I've probably done a couple of feet up U turns in about the last 3 years, I just don't need to do it mainly by heading in the right direction!

It is one of those things that a lot of riders do think isn't useful any more.... but - when you DO end up needing to do one, it's bloody handy!

Thing is though, when do you have to do a feet up U turn? If I thought in terms of 'I must not put my foot down' I can't think of any time that's been the case in the 30 years since I passed my test. There has always been the option to put a foot down, paddle round, do a 3 point turn etc etc. When I've done them it's been cos it's more convenient but I can't think when it's ever been necessary. Plus I'd rather look like a noob and dab a foot than I would a prat under a bike on the floor.

[Horse]

the u-turn uses slow-speed control which you can practise independently, in a straight line (as Nordboy said). When you're happy with that and it's semi-automatic, then use that skill to start the turns,

Ahem

Get the throttle / clutch / brake sorted in a straight line, try to come to a feet up halt, before riding away. As before, head and eyes up, looking well ahead.

Then move on to turns.

[Horse]

Thing is though, when do you have to do a feet up U turn? If I thought in terms of 'I must not put my foot down' I can't think of any time that's been the case in the 30 years since I passed my test.

... like a noob and dab a foot than I would a prat under a bike on the floor.

Perhaps consider the skills underpinning slow speed control, rather than a need to do U turns.

Slow traffic, tight junctions, dead-ends, tight parking spots, turning to face uphill when parking ...

The 'foot dab' option for many riders means both feet out - then they only have the front brake. A panic grab means they're over before they know what's happened.

[Supermofo]

Perhaps consider the skills underpinning slow speed control, rather than a need to do U turns.

Yeah I know what you are driving at, but I do slow speed control all the time. U turns pretty much never, but that's the thing in the test.

[Horse]

Perhaps consider the skills underpinning slow speed control, rather than a need to do U turns.

Yeah I know what you are driving at, but I do slow speed control all the time. U turns pretty much never, but that's the thing in the test.

Yup, compare:
"Learn this ... Now try this ... "
Vs
"Do a U to pass, here's how ... "

Everything taught should have a real-world application, not just to pass a test. Yes, specific training will be needed for the 'party tricks' aspects of Mods 1 & 2 - but training just for tests emphasises the fallacy of "Pass your test, now ignore all that and really learn to ride".

[/Rant]

[weeksy]

Perhaps consider the skills underpinning slow speed control, rather than a need to do U turns.

Yeah I know what you are driving at, but I do slow speed control all the time. U turns pretty much never, but that's the thing in the test.

Yup, compare:
"Learn this ... Now try this ... "
Vs
"Do a U to pass, here's how ... "

Everything taught should have a real-world application, not just to pass a test. Yes, specific training will be needed for the 'party tricks' aspects of Mods 1 & 2 - but training just for tests emphasises the fallacy of "Pass your test, now ignore all that and really learn to ride".

[/Rant]

Howerver, U-turns don't really have a real world application, because there's never really a scenario where it's the only option.

[Count Steer]

Yeah I know what you are driving at, but I do slow speed control all the time. U turns pretty much never, but that's the thing in the test.

Yup, compare:
"Learn this ... Now try this ... "
Vs
"Do a U to pass, here's how ... "

Everything taught should have a real-world application, not just to pass a test. Yes, specific training will be needed for the 'party tricks' aspects of Mods 1 & 2 - but training just for tests emphasises the fallacy of "Pass your test, now ignore all that and really learn to ride".

[/Rant]

Howerver, U-turns don't really have a real world application, because there's never really a scenario where it's the only option.

But they're well cool when you can do them.

[Horse]

Yeah I know what you are driving at, but I do slow speed control all the time. U turns pretty much never, but that's the thing in the test.

Yup, compare:
"Learn this ... Now try this ... "
Vs
"Do a U to pass, here's how ... "

Everything taught should have a real-world application, not just to pass a test. Yes, specific training will be needed for the 'party tricks' aspects of Mods 1 & 2 - but training just for tests emphasises the fallacy of "Pass your test, now ignore all that and really learn to ride".

[/Rant]

Howerver, U-turns don't really have a real world application, because there's never really a scenario where it's the only option.

It's the skills underpinning the U that are important, such as:
- head and eyes up, looking well ahead
- throttle / clutch / rear brake
- feet up
- counter-weighting
- planning ahead

And, when all the skills are fluent, it frees concentration to be somewhere more important.

Whether or not the U is relevant to real-world riding is, to learners, irrelevant. They need to know it.

However, put those skills into real-world context and you're looking at a range of scenarios, mini-roundabouts for example.

[ZRX61]

I take it you aren't allowed to lock the rear wheel & slide it around 180deg?

[Horse]

I take it you aren't allowed to lock the rear wheel & slide it around 180deg?

You jest ...

I wrote (in the days before email) to DSA (as was then) about the MSF's emergency braking techniques. They were introduced to their training syllabus following research.

Perhaps DSA would like to review the information, attend an MSF course (in the UK), reconsider what they advise and how they test?

"No"

[Wossname]

I don’t (think I) know about the MSF emergency braking techniques… expliquez, svp?

[Noggin]

I always struggled with U-turns but I think that's partly because I didn't start on a little bike - apart from the CBT and a couple of days on the DAS course.

I got a pass on the test out of luck - I did the turn and at the last moment I touched, went onto slightly, a flat kerb (access to someones driveway) so I totally knew I'd failed. I looked towards the examiner and he had his back to me, he obviously thought I would make that last bit of the turn fine and was getting back on his bike!! Pheee-uwwwww! Although I have always felt that I kinda cheated

But once I spent a load of time on the dinky bike (390 Duke), u-turns were easy and then easier on the big bikes.


BUT - as others have said, whilst the skills you use to do a u-turn can be useful after the test, I've never been in a position where I HAD to do a u-turn post test and NOT put my feet down! Yes it looks cool, but you can, IRL, put your feet down.


I know Horse won't agree, but I would honestly say just learn how to do the u-turn to pass the test - practice the slow speed controls etc after, but you need the pass to have the freedom to learn more!


Good luck

[Horse]

I don’t (think I) know about the MSF emergency braking techniques… expliquez, svp?

Unless you'd taken training in the US (or are a training nerd)*, it's highly unlikely you would.

* I'm neither. I took MSF training in the UK (via the USAF), later qualifying as a RiderCoach

Main differences (from memory, from 30+ years ago):
- clutch in; if you lock the rear and release you're not bump-starting the engine
- downshift one gear
- if the rear locks, keep it locked; releasing if the rear wheel is out of line can lead to loss of control

https://msf-usa.org/

2011:
https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle ... -training/

Sept. 12, 2011 — The Motorcycle Safety Foundation recently graduated its six millionth RiderCourse student, a milestone reached through the ongoing efforts of nearly 10,000 RiderCoaches at more than 2,000 training sites worldwide.

[Horse]

I always struggled with U-turns but I think that's partly because I didn't start on a little bike - apart from the CBT and a couple of days on the DAS course.

Perhaps - and this isn't taking the piss - if you'd had better training on the basics, the U would have been easier for you.

I've spent many hours teaching riders to do feet up, near full lock, U turns - on large BMWs. Yes, it's easier on small bikes, but that can actually result in riders struggling on bigger, heavier, bikes.

but you need the pass to have the freedom to learn more!

And how many people will actually bother?

And there's the 'pass your test, then learn to ride' thing I mentioned earlier ...

Yes it looks cool, but you can, IRL, put your feet down.

1. Isn't 'being cool' one of the reasons for biking?

2. I'm fine with people putting a foot down - but, often, they'll do it as a panic, rather than controlled, action.

Good luck

Yup

[MrLongbeard]

mini-roundabouts for example

Mini roundabouts require no skill, just ride over the top of them

[Supermofo]

1. Isn't 'being cool' one of the reasons for biking?

Not gonna lie. Huge vertical wheelie = Cool. U-turn...yeah not really.