Pre-Diabetic

[MyLittleStudPony]

I'm not sure keto is particularly healthy. Maybe an ok way to lose weight over a brief period but I wouldn't want to do it for long.

[Noggin]

I'm not sure keto is particularly healthy. Maybe an ok way to lose weight over a brief period but I wouldn't want to do it for long.

I think I agree tbh. I have a friend over in Switzerland who eats a carnivore diet - that really is my dream in so many ways !! But I am not convinced that cutting out a whole food group or only eating a specific food group or two is particularly good

But the flip to that is that my SDad looks and is amazing for 79.5 years old. And he’s been keto for years now (aside from the occasional blip!!). And the carnivore friend is the same (not so old!!). So it must work for some.

I just think you need to find a way of eating that works for you - whilst being aware of sugars specifically for some health reasons

But hey, I’m fat so what do I know

[MrLongbeard]

I'd love to go full keto as when I'm near keto I do lose weight, but with my tastes in foods it's next to impossible, cauliflower flour (barf), but from carbs pre near keto of;

2 servings of rice a week
1 pizza a week
2 - 3 servings of chips or other forms of potatoes a week
3 pot noodles a week
4 + rounds of bread / wraps a day
1 sharing bag of crisps per week
1 KFC chicken wrap or subway a week

down to carbs near keto;
1 pizza a week
1 KFC chicken wrap a fortnight
5 low carb wraps a week

I can live with that, but by buggery do I miss chips / fries / hash browns

[katana]

FWIW I don't think reducing carbs (other than sugar) is actually healthy. Others may disagree.

Anyway, good luck with it. You have to find what works for you.

That is the thing, what is healthy for a non diabetic and diabetic are different. In reality all carbs are converted to glucose 'cos that is what we run on. Carbs are bad for diabetics, so you limit them. If you are interested, I would direct you to the books by Dr Bernstien.

Also there were a few BBC tv programs that were by Dr Micheal Moseley, that are very interesting and I think that watching may give you a better insight of things.

I really can't be bothered to write all I have learnt and believe me (blowing my own trumpet) it is extensive from being experiment on by lots of different groups of scientists. All looking at different things. Tho I have scratched the surface.

The thing is we seem to be learning more about our bodies, things like fasting, intermittent fasting, and calorie limting seem to have an effect on health and longevity. Then we (scientists) have start looking at the stuff in out gut and how it affects our bodies to the point that chemical brain inbalances (anxiety) have links to out gut biome.

[katana]

I recently found out that if you cook pasta and rice then cool and fridge for 24 hours it changes the carb structure (no idea of the correct phraseology - this is loosely 'translated' from what a friend and my SDad told me !!). So you reheat it the next day and it's no longer as carby or as bad (both or one or the other !! )

Apparently it changes them into 'resistant' carbs which the body can't / struggles to break down into glucose, not sure if it still applies if you reheat them food though, not something I've looked into that deeply as I find it easier to just go without

From the trust me I'm a doctor with Dr Micheal Mosely

Here I have quoted from this article from the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29629761 as there are those that a link is too much to follow

You are probably familiar with the idea that pasta is a form of carbohydrate and like all carbohydrates it gets broken down in your guts and then absorbed as simple sugars, which in turn makes your blood glucose soar.

In response to a surge in blood glucose our bodies produce a rush of the hormone insulin to get your blood glucose back down to normal as swiftly as possible, because persistently high levels of glucose in the blood are extremely unhealthy.

A rapid rise in blood glucose, followed by a rapid fall, can often make you feel hungry again quite soon after a meal. It's true of sugary sweets and cakes, but it's also true for things like pasta, potatoes, white rice and white bread. That's why dieticians emphasise the importance of eating foods that are rich in fibre, as these foods produce a much more gradual rise and fall in your blood sugars.

But what if you could change pasta or potatoes into a food that, to the body, acts much more like fibre? Well, it seems you can. Cooking pasta and then cooling it down changes the structure of the pasta, turning it into something that is called "resistant starch".

It's called "resistant starch" because once pasta, potatoes or any starchy food is cooked and cooled it becomes resistant to the normal enzymes in our gut that break carbohydrates down and releases glucose that then causes the familiar blood sugar surge.

So, according to scientist Dr Denise Robertson, from the University of Surrey, if you cook and cool pasta down then your body will treat it much more like fibre, creating a smaller glucose peak and helping feed the good bacteria that reside down in your gut. You will also absorb fewer calories, making this a win-win situation.

One obvious problem is that many people don't really like cold pasta. So what would happen if you took the cold pasta and warmed it up?

When we asked scientists this question they said that it would probably go back to its previous, non-resistant form, but no-one had actually done the experiment. So we thought we should.]Dr Chris van Tulleken roped in some volunteers to do the tests. The volunteers had to undergo three days of testing in all, spread out over several weeks. On each occasion they had to eat their pasta on an empty stomach.

The volunteers were randomised to eating either hot, cold or reheated pasta on different days.

On one day they got to eat the pasta, freshly cooked, nice and hot with a plain but delicious sauce of tomatoes and garlic.

On another day they had to eat it cold, with the same sauce, but after it had been chilled overnight.

And on a third day they got to eat the pasta with sauce after it had been chilled and then reheated.

On each of the days they also had to give blood samples every 15 minutes for two hours, to see what happened to their blood glucose as the pasta was slowly digested.

So what did happen?

Well we were fairly confident the cold pasta would be more resistant than the stuff that had been freshly cooked and we were right.

Just as expected, eating cold pasta led to a smaller spike in blood glucose and insulin than eating freshly boiled pasta had.

But then we found something that we really didn't expect - cooking, cooling and then reheating the pasta had an even more dramatic effect. Or, to be precise, an even smaller effect on blood glucose.

In fact, it reduced the rise in blood glucose by 50%.

This certainly suggests that reheating the pasta made it into an even more "resistant starch". It's an extraordinary result and one never measured before.

If you don't know why 15 minutes for the BG testing and how that has changed please look that up before any comments on your opinions.

[katana]

I'm not sure keto is particularly healthy. Maybe an ok way to lose weight over a brief period but I wouldn't want to do it for long.

The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion.

Might be better to mention it once, move on and not keep coming back to repeat the same thing as it is just tiresome.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I'm not sure keto is particularly healthy. Maybe an ok way to lose weight over a brief period but I wouldn't want to do it for long.

The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion.

Might be better to mention it once, move on and not keep coming back to repeat the same thing as it is just tiresome.

"The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion."

[MrLongbeard]

One obvious problem is that many people don't really like cold pasta.

Was my immediate thought, same with rice & potatoes, but then I go and buy a cold pasta salad today, and remembering my SiL makes a mean cold rice n peas dish.
Cold potato salad can do one though.

[katana]

I'm not sure keto is particularly healthy. Maybe an ok way to lose weight over a brief period but I wouldn't want to do it for long.

The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion.

Might be better to mention it once, move on and not keep coming back to repeat the same thing as it is just tiresome.

"The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion."

Would you prefer I say shut the fuck up as you know fuck all about this. Yet you keep offering your opinion like it means something. There are quite a few scientific studies touched on by Dr Micheal Mosely in his trust me I'm a doctor series that show you are wrong. Mentioned these are they are easily available on iPlayer. But feel free to show me your qualifications to make your opinion on carb restricting / calorie restricting diet worth repeating.

Looking at this, why are you repeating the same opinion on a thread? Would you do the same on a mechanic thread? So why are you doing it on this one?

[katana]

One obvious problem is that many people don't really like cold pasta.

Was my immediate thought, same with rice & potatoes, but then I go and buy a cold pasta salad today, and remembering my SiL makes a mean cold rice n peas dish.
Cold potato salad can do one though.

The pasta is usually doused in a sugary sauce, to make it more palatable.

It you say cold crunchy roast potatoes aren't lush you are dead to me. Tho a potato salad is just over boiled potatoes mixed with salad cream...

Tho you can use orzo (rice like pasta stuff) that have the same effect of the pasta cooling and reheating.

[katana]

Quoted you I didn't know how else to direct a question to you.


Forgot to ask did you get a blood test for liver function and a c peptide test? Did they explain about a glucose tolerance test, and how to do one at home?

[MrLongbeard]

@katana liver function yes, been having those while due to blood pressure meds, c peptide no idea, GTT nope.

Dr's were very not overly concerned as I'm only just on the prediabetic scale and the test of my bloods were in normal ranges, they seem to be saying lets do this prediabetic course with a health coach and see what the numbers say after and go from there.

[MyLittleStudPony]

The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion.

Might be better to mention it once, move on and not keep coming back to repeat the same thing as it is just tiresome.

"The more often you express your same opinion, in a thread that is a more sepcific thread and not some general banter seems to be you have an opinion."

Would you prefer I say shut the fuck up as you know fuck all about this. Yet you keep offering your opinion like it means something. There are quite a few scientific studies touched on by Dr Micheal Mosely in his trust me I'm a doctor series that show you are wrong. Mentioned these are they are easily available on iPlayer. But feel free to show me your qualifications to make your opinion on carb restricting / calorie restricting diet worth repeating.

Looking at this, why are you repeating the same opinion on a thread? Would you do the same on a mechanic thread? So why are you doing it on this one?

I offered that opinion as an opinion. The information came from someone close to me who is a medical doctor, professor of gastroenterology, got an OBE and the Rank Prize for their work in the area as well as being a special advisor to the WHO for c.10 years on the area; and has a pretty much unparalleled Hirsch Index. The information is freely available to all in the peer reviewed literature. Unfortunately it makes a less good news story than "X magic diet will solve your problems easily".

I won't mention it again as it seems to be upsetting you.



Good luck to everyone with their dietary challenges and solutions.

[katana]

@katana liver function yes, been having those while due to blood pressure meds, c peptide no idea, GTT nope.

Dr's were very not overly concerned as I'm only just on the prediabetic scale and the test of my bloods were in normal ranges, they seem to be saying lets do this prediabetic course with a health coach and see what the numbers say after and go from there.

Now am wondering if your GP has identified you in a vunerable group to becoming diabetic, the NICE guidelines are all a bit meh IMO due the guideline changes. Wondering tho if it would be better to see an endcrenologist and get more tests as a sort of bench marks for later. Pre diabetes (and being resistant to your own insulin) is linked, as in goes hand in hand with fatty liver disease. Dealing with the fatty liver disease, has been known to help with insullin resistance.

The c peptide test, is a blood test that looks at how much insulin you are producing so can get an idea if the issue is insulin resistance or issue with the pancreas. But if you are overwieght it is rarely looked beyond that.

So you have had the kidney function tests too. As there are issues that can crop up. Also be aware that you might end up with urinary tract infection especially thrush. That is the one no doctors tell you but lot of other people in the same situation have.

[MrLongbeard]

Dunno, doc said pre-diabetic, just checked notes and it lists me as Non-diabetic hyperglycaemia with a HbA1c level of 42mmol/mol, I'll do the work and see what comes out of it down the road.

[Count Steer]

42mmol/mol is the lower limit of pre-diabetic so it's an early intervention and you shouldn't need to turn your diet/life upside down.

(In as far as you can compare I think it's about equivalent 7mmol/l...I monitored mine for 3 months and the pm average was 5.7mmol/l....so it wasn't that that was producing the symptoms).

[MrLongbeard]

you shouldn't need to turn your diet/life upside down.

Yeah I do, OK maybe not upside down but I really should get my shit together.

[Count Steer]

you shouldn't need to turn your diet/life upside down.

Yeah I do, OK maybe not upside down but I really should get my shit together.

Well, if it's any encouragement, I reached a point where I thought 'something must be done' and knuckled down, made a few changes over time and stuck with them and have got rid of about 25% of the old me, for which even my knees have been grateful. My last suite of blood tests came back looking pretty fair too.

It took a while (ie years rather than months) but at long as things were trending in the right direction I didn't worry about it, just kept on keeping on.

[MrLongbeard]

Yeah, that's the plan, just really need to keep an eye on not forming any bad habits, I used to never do desserts, then when the weather picked up had an ice cream once a week, then to one a day, same with pick n mix, had one for a treat on holiday, forgot how much I enjoyed them, then onto ordering a 5kg bucket online.

So yeah, sod that I find total abstinence easier.

[Hot_Air]

doc said pre-diabetic, just checked notes and it lists me as Non-diabetic hyperglycaemia with a HbA1c level of 42mmol/mol, I'll do the work and see what comes out of it down the road.

I’m sorry to hear that, but at least you're aware of it in time to take action and keep things under control. It’s worth taking seriously, particularly as you can reverse it if you act at the pre-diabetes stage.

I've had close family members who didn’t take their pre-diabetes seriously and paid a heavy price for not doing the work. In contrast, Michael Mosley, mentioned above, is one of the various people who reversed their condition by doing the work.