revtothelimit - motorbike forum

The Spin Doctor wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:09 pm I'm not arguing with any of that... however, what I have heard is that by the time the traumatic injury is hard enough to kill you fast, you have internal injuries that will be just as fatal - but more slowly.

So is there that much point in improving helmets' impact resistance? Improving testing to ensure helmets actually comply is a different matter.

I only know - the documents are all on the SHARP website for anyone who wants the details - that SHARP '1' was based on injuries and survivability of riders in actual crashes.

Guessing, if a 4* helmet gives you reduced injury (but you still suffer some TBI) compared to a 1*, then increased protection could reduce that further.

And the difference might be from fatal to survival.

Edit: reducing rotational forces could be a good example of that.

1 star, 5 stars, meh, I just want to look cool in my Amazon helmet as I slide down the road into oblivion

Those helmets have actually been approved by somebody?!

Must have been, sellers / retailers would never lie

Horse wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:20 pm

The Spin Doctor wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:09 pm I'm not arguing with any of that... however, what I have heard is that by the time the traumatic injury is hard enough to kill you fast, you have internal injuries that will be just as fatal - but more slowly.

So is there that much point in improving helmets' impact resistance? Improving testing to ensure helmets actually comply is a different matter.

I only know - the documents are all on the SHARP website for anyone who wants the details - that SHARP '1' was based on injuries and survivability of riders in actual crashes.

Guessing, if a 4* helmet gives you reduced injury (but you still suffer some TBI) compared to a 1*, then increased protection could reduce that further.

And the difference might be from fatal to survival.

Edit: reducing rotational forces could be a good example of that.

You are missing the point. If the head injuries are fatal right now, so are the internal injuries likely to be. So creating helmets that save a few fatal head injuries are unlikely to save significant numbers of lives.

Scootabout wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 8:29 pm Those helmets have actually been approved by somebody?!

A company based on a trading estate not far from here was nabbed for selling uncertified lids as well as one with a fake CE certification.

£10k fine seems pretty small beer.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 11:46 pm

Horse wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:20 pm

The Spin Doctor wrote: Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:09 pm I'm not arguing with any of that... however, what I have heard is that by the time the traumatic injury is hard enough to kill you fast, you have internal injuries that will be just as fatal - but more slowly.

So is there that much point in improving helmets' impact resistance? Improving testing to ensure helmets actually comply is a different matter.

I only know - the documents are all on the SHARP website for anyone who wants the details - that SHARP '1' was based on injuries and survivability of riders in actual crashes.

Guessing, if a 4* helmet gives you reduced injury (but you still suffer some TBI) compared to a 1*, then increased protection could reduce that further.

And the difference might be from fatal to survival.

Edit: reducing rotational forces could be a good example of that.

You are missing the point. If the head injuries are fatal right now, so are the internal injuries likely to be. So creating helmets that save a few fatal head injuries are unlikely to save significant numbers of lives.

@the_priest

I can't remember the exact details, it'll be in published material somewhere, but IIRC it was suggested/ predicted at the start of SHARP that if all riders had been wearing 5* helmets, there would have been 50 fewer fatalities that year.

You're right, I might have missed your point. But you might also have missed something.

It's about ratcheting down. Potentially fatal to survivable, severe to [relatively] minor injury.

I had concussion, which led to mild depression, and memory issues for 18 months. And with the emerging awareness of long-term issues such as dementia from football players heading balls - and suggestions that even a single brain trauma can have irreversible effects and lead to dementia, that reduction of even 'minor' injury could also be life-altering.