Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

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Mussels
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Mussels »

Count Steer wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:00 pm
Yambo wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:51 pm I'm not sure, but there seems to be a slight whiff of conspiracy theory in your post CS . . .

Maybe not having had Covid has had a different affect on my olfactory system.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to be suspicious/cynical of the motives and manoeuvres of Big Tech. :lol: I just raised it as food for thought that things may not always be as they appear at first sniff. The very fact that some of these companies seem keen on legislation is a cause for at least a raised eyebrow or two).

(The article was very well thought through and logically presented - and I wish I could find the bloomin' thing).
This idea sounds very plausible and I also think they know it's very hard to legislate against something that doesn't exist, AI is a concept rather than something clearly defined.
ChatGPT made it clear that a relatively unknown company could make a breakthrough and almost put the big players out of business quickly, they would probably rather nobody is allowed to innovate and disturb their nice business models.
As it turned out ChatGPT was over-hyped but I think they all saw the danger.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Horse »

From the Understandably newsletter:

I prompted ChatGPT for a definition. Here's what it came up with. (Hold onto this if you can, because we're going to come back to it):

Artificial Intelligence (AI): the capability of a machine or computer program to mimic human intelligence processes, learn from experiences, adapt to new inputs, and perform tasks that typically require human intellect.
I have to say: Not a bad definition. (Of course, if there's one thing AI should get right, it's probably the definition of AI).

I was prompted to use that prompt after reading an insightful, fun and marginally dystopian article on New York magazine's website, about the thousands of people toiling away at highly robotic tasks, in order to train AI robots.

Reason: If AI is supposed to learn from experiences and adapt to new inputs, then somebody has to provide the initial experiences and inputs.

This is a real job (maybe more of a "gig") to be exact. The people who do it are called "annotators" (or "taskers"). They're all over the world—primarily in economically challenged areas—for example, in small towns in the USA, sprawling African cities, and remote areas of South Asia.

If you're familiar with Mechanical Turk, aka MTurk, that's the idea: "a crowdsourcing website ... to perform discrete on-demand tasks. In fact, former Princeton professor Fei-Fei Li used MTurk 15 years ago to come up with people who were willing to label millions of images for AI purposes.

Now, there are tons of companies doing this, and their founders and stakeholders are getting rich, even while the annotators make roughly "the hourly living wage" for their location or more, according to a subsidiary of Google involved in the effort. The jobs are often mind-numbingly boring, requiring "learning to think like a robot" and follow extremely specific instructions.

But, they're better than other jobs the taskers are likely to find where they live. Among the typical tasks that the annotators and taskers do, as cited in the article:

- video calls,
- identifying corn in images and videos (apparently, "for baffled autonomous tractors"),
- looking at hundreds or thousands of photos of crowds, and identifying all the knees and elbows, since computers can't do that until we teach them,
- classifying American Reddit posts by emotion (there were noteworthy errors with this one, since the task was outsourced to countries where annotators were unfamiliar with U.S. slang), and
- simply making conversation with an AI chatbot for hours at a time, in order to teach it how to sound more human.

That last task earned an American worker $14 an hour. "It definitely beats getting paid $10 an hour at the local Dollar General store,” she told New York. The hardest challenge? Running out of things to talk about. "I just Google interesting topics."

There are also higher-paying tasks requiring specialized knowledge, like identifying specious or dangerous legal advice (J.D. preferred), or rating translations. (I found a few gigs, in case anyone happens to be fluent in Igbo or Sesotho sa Leboa, and would like to make a few bucks).

Anyway, I recommend reading the whole article if you can, but just to highlight a few key things:

First, for both corporate secrecy reasons, and maybe just to avoid a revolt, the annotators and taskers aren't told who they're actually working for, or even why they're doing it. However, they do sometimes figure it out. (“I Googled and found I am working for a 25-year-old billionaire,” said one worker in Africa. “I really am wasting my life.”)

Second, it's worth noting that if annotators are providing the experiential building blocks of AI, then at least some AI will start out by seeing the world as early 21st century humans with low economic prospects do, since they're the annotators.

Finally, companies employing annotators are always trying to find ways to cut costs, for example taking the jobs that were for Kenyans and moving them to Nepal. So, how do the workers react? Well, to copy the AI definition above, they "learn from experiences, adapt to new inputs, and improve their performances.

For example, they form networks on WhatsApp to share info about the best gigs. They get VPNs to suggest their in Missouri or Texas instead of Nigeria (to qualify for higher pay). And maybe most fascinating:

A Kenyan annotator said ... now, he runs multiple accounts in multiple countries, tasking wherever the pay is best. He works fast and gets high marks for quality, he said, thanks to ChatGPT.

The bot is wonderful, he said, letting him speed through $10 tasks in a matter of minutes.

So, we wind up with billion-dollar companies paying low wages to people to teach AI technology, but then the people making the low wages figure out how to use the same AI technology to trick the billionaires. Sounds peachy. Can anyone identify if there might be a problem with that?


Original article:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article ... ctory.html
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Horse »

Via Understandably, from here:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... irst-time/

Since the arrival of OpenAI’s ChatGPT in November, the clever AI-powered chatbot has taken the world by storm as people take the tool for a spin while also speculating about how the technology might transform the workplace and wider society. But for the first time since ChatGPT landed toward the end of last year, visits to the chatbot’s website have dipped, analytics firm Similarweb said. OpenAI’s site for ChatGPT fell by 9.7% in June, while the rate of unique visitors dropped by 5.7%. Also, the amount of time visitors spent on the website was down 8.5%.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

Anyhoo...anyone that's decided AI isn't a danger, to humanity or otherwise, might like to spend an hour listening to Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin at the Aspen Ideas Institute. For those of little patience it's been described as ''probably the most lucid and chilling tutorial on AI I have ever seen'. So, I'm in the 'needs policies and regulation by someone that knows what they're doing' camp.

Here y'go. Enjoy. :D

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by weeksy »

Screwdriver wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:25 pm great find and an interesting update.

TLDR for those who don't have an hour: we are so fucked...

Mo Gawdats book Scary Smart feels like it is an historical novel already compared to the progress in AI since I stumbled upon this issue. His solution (which turned into a bit of a ramble towards the end if you ask me) was that we need to treat these AI as our children. Knowing they will grow up to rule the world, teach them with love.

Fat chance of that sadly. Being half Persian myself I can tell you why AI suddenly "woke up" with the ability to speak Persian! Facebook reveals I actually do have half a dozen brothers from my fathers side. Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together. Let's hope they're not all like me...

Since we are effectively at war with Russia, I bet my bottom rouble they too will be furiously working on AI and they're not going to put the brakes on any time soon. China have virtually the entire worlds manufacturing capacity and a laissez-faire attitude towards intellectual property (which will become worthless compared to manufacturing ability). India is an entire continent with a massive population from which any gaussian distribution is going to provide them with a large number of genius developers and dev work is cheap...

The list goes on. There is an argument for suggesting that the responsible, developed world, USA and Europe will simply be shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't at least keep up with "our enemies".

And there's the rub. While it may be anthropomorphising to describe AI as "our children" and therefore we should teach with love is a sound proposition, the reality is AI will be trained on corporate greed, war and dominance. "We" will then pit one AI against the other.

Like I said, we are totally fucked. :thumbup:
when ? before the weekend ?
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

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weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am

when ? before the weekend ?
They could make it 8:45 Monday morning at least.
Who takes over the world on a Friday?
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by weeksy »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:57 am
weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am when ? before the weekend ?
Difficult to say when so many people much smarter than me are seeing a "double exponential" rate of growth.

We might even be experiencing it right now for all I know.
Or we may never see it :D
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

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Screwdriver wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:08 am
But then you haven't even bothered to watch that latest video have you...
I haven't watched any.... :)

I mostly just sit here and laugh at your thoughts sorry..

Whilst you may think there's a problem, i don't.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Supermofo »

That's going to be the nub of this isn't it. China, Russia, US, corporations etc all with their own completing AI all being spun to their own ends, all working against each other and to some extent making them fairly useless. There was just a piece on the radio news saying a commission was asking how to stop ChatGTP giving wrong answers, which seems a fairly common thing and one which will get worse as people work to make them do so. At which point you can't trust it and it eats itself in terms of usefulness. Let's face it China and Russia's AI isn't going to be full of 'free thinking' ideas based on truth and neither will big business. So as something to learn from it's buggered from the start.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Horse »

weeksy wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:38 am
when ? before the weekend ?
That would answer Dern's wet track day dilemma.

And what if it's a day when we're not all free, will it be delayed?
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Count Steer »

Not everyone's going to be interested Screwd, which is fair enough. In the end the same will happen to those that were interested/saw it coming as those that are/didn't care. So they have a point. :D

I just get interested in 'stuff'. If I could make use of all the 'stuff' I've probably filled my brain with just 'out of interest' I'd probably be a 'Professor of A Little Bit of Everything'. :lol: It's got me revisiting the novels of John Brunner though - he was pretty good in the futurology department considering most of his books were written in the 60s. (Computer worms, supercomputers like WESCAC and Shalmameser, pollution, overpopulation etc).

(PS Harris raised the potential downsides of social media and 'app culture' years ago (see 'The Social Dilemma') - nobody seemed to take any notice - he's an ex Google designer that worked on apps).
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Supermofo »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:44 am Appreciate that but in all of the scenarios being driven largely by the WEF/United Nations, this is the only one where everybody can influence the outcome merely by their interaction with this new alien intelligence.
The problem there is, a bit like democracy, everybody is largely a fuckwit.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

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Supermofo wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:53 am
Screwdriver wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:44 am Appreciate that but in all of the scenarios being driven largely by the WEF/United Nations, this is the only one where everybody can influence the outcome merely by their interaction with this new alien intelligence.
The problem there is, a bit like democracy, everybody is largely a fuckwit.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

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This thread smells of Luddite wee.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Mussels »

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:19 am Word of caution for zoomers (or anyone with a live mic).

Hackers have developed an AI tool that can work out your password by listening to the sound of your keystrokes. It's "only" 90% effective but be wary of typing in passwords while on a zoom call or while on the phone I guess...
It would need more than that to work out which sounds are which keys, it would need to listen to hundreds or thousands of words being typed so it can work out the strokes. Then you'd need to enter the password while on the call.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

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Besides, really poor password management, email and qr code phishing are already with us, and happily given zero thought by the masses. People are still happily clicking on emails from Nigerian princes and responding to "Your parcel is ready" texts from "Amazzoon" because they are careless thickets. Add Zoom Password Spying to the list of "maybe" security risks that big corporations are going to train you to watch out for. You wouldn't believe the # of systems I come across where Admins found a reason not to implement strong password complexity, let alone MFA - so your password could be 123456. Yeah.

And most people's mics are really bad at consistently blocking/picking-up background noises anyway
Last edited by DefTrap on Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by wheelnut »

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:56 am
I don't know how it does it but it can translate the sounds of typing into text with greater than 90% accuracy.

But yes, you would have to type in <a password> while next to an open mic. Apparently, you don't want to do that.
As deftrap says, there’s a hundred easier ways to get someone’s password than that. It’s an ever evolving landscape and while the above may be technically feasible, it’s not really a measurable threat at the moment. I am sure that the rise of AI will throw up much more serious threats in the coming years.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Yorick »

wheelnut wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:16 am
Screwdriver wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 8:56 am
I don't know how it does it but it can translate the sounds of typing into text with greater than 90% accuracy.

But yes, you would have to type in <a password> while next to an open mic. Apparently, you don't want to do that.
As deftrap says, there’s a hundred easier ways to get someone’s password than that. It’s an ever evolving landscape and while the above may be technically feasible, it’s not really a measurable threat at the moment. I am sure that the rise of AI will throw up much more serious threats in the coming years.
There's thousands of PWS viruses out there :D
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Slenver »

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:19 am Hackers have developed an AI tool that can work out your password by listening to the sound of your keystrokes.
No, they haven't.

Researchers have built a model in a lab by extensively training an AI with a specific keyboard so that it can recognise which individual key is being pressed 93% of the time in a test.

It wouldn't necessarily work with several keys being typed quickly, it wouldn't necessarily know if the shift key was being held down, it wouldn't necessarily work without the extensive training on a particular keyboard, it obviously wouldn't work unless you happen to record the keys being typed and researchers aren't hackers. Plus of course, 93% accuracy sounds amazing, but this is per key. So for a 10-character password it's less than 50%.

So yes, it's impressive, and yes, potentially a real threat at some point. But it's not a current threat in any way yet, no.
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Re: Is chat GPT a danger to humanity?

Post by Yorick »

Slenver wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 10:15 am
Screwdriver wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2023 1:19 am Hackers have developed an AI tool that can work out your password by listening to the sound of your keystrokes.
No, they haven't.

Researchers have built a model in a lab by extensively training an AI with a specific keyboard so that it can recognise which individual key is being pressed 93% of the time in a test.

It wouldn't necessarily work with several keys being typed quickly, it wouldn't necessarily know if the shift key was being held down, it wouldn't necessarily work without the extensive training on a particular keyboard, it obviously wouldn't work unless you happen to record the keys being typed and researchers aren't hackers. Plus of course, 93% accuracy sounds amazing, but this is per key. So for a 10-character password it's less than 50%.

So yes, it's impressive, and yes, potentially a real threat at some point. But it's not a current threat in any way yet, no.
Or a trojan PWS virus sits quietly on the device watching the key strokes :D
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