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Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:35 pm
by gremlin
Ant wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:24 pm
Many SUVs are useful for families with kids, dogs etc. They're not just a vanity purchase, it's a vehicle you can use. Small cars are a struggle for some people. What mpg do you think an SUV does or doesn't do?
I've tried and failed to find an article I read last year, IIRC, which evidenced the rise in efficiency of ICE vs. the real world decrease in MPG, the primary cause being that the newer, more efficient engines are thrown into an SUV which hauls around a 4WD system that is rarely, if ever, used and is much less aerodynamic.
That said, I'm a hypocrite, as I have one. In part that's the fault of manufacturers who stopped making estates in favour of SUVs, but then only because people liked the image they portray.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:36 pm
by Ant
There's plenty of smaller and lighter cars on the market. People have a choice based on what they need based on how they live their life. If you're a single person who does nothing, a Fiat 500 might do. If you're a single person out most weekends doing hobbies etc, you'll need something bigger. If you're a family with three kids and a dog, you'll need something else.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:37 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
It's not so much the AWD as the fact it's a fucking parachute lugging around a skip full of bricks
It's about as obvious as you'd guess. Mass and size swamp everything. That's why EVs are tending towards the 'used bar of soap' looks, it's all about aero.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:38 pm
by Ant
gremlin wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:35 pm
Ant wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:24 pm
Many SUVs are useful for families with kids, dogs etc. They're not just a vanity purchase, it's a vehicle you can use. Small cars are a struggle for some people. What mpg do you think an SUV does or doesn't do?
I've tried and failed to find an article I read last year, IIRC, which evidenced the rise in efficiency of ICE vs. the real world decrease in MPG, the primary cause being that the newer, more efficient engines are thrown into an SUV which hauls around a 4WD system that is rarely, if ever, used and is much less aerodynamic.
That said, I'm a hypocrite, as I have one. In part that's the fault of manufacturers who stopped making estates in favour of SUVs, but then only because people liked the image they portray.
Most on the market aren't even 4WD, you can get something like a Qashqai which does 70mpg. Though plenty of estates still around, though I must say, we have an E class estate which is big and even that at times we've filled it up and thought, we need a roof box!
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:43 pm
by Couchy
Ant wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:24 pm
Couchy wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:22 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:21 am
Smacks of oil lobbying TBF. Snot like there's been a concentrated effort to reduce the mass of ICE cars or owt.
WRT Salary Sacrifice...we have it at work, but I don't partake. As you might imagine it's a sizable discount if you're a higher rate tax payer. You do pay a BIK tax on the car but at present it's 1 or 2%. Probably won't stay that way for much longer.
I just don't know about the whole EV thing despite being in the industry. Maybe a push towards 50mpg petrol hybrids would be a better start as they are much less polluting than diesel, maybe a push towards smaller cars and to get rid of SUV which are nothing more than a vanity purchase. If everyone was in a smaller car doing more mpg it would be a much better start. The popularity of SUV can't have done the environment much good when most owners could have had amore economical car. It's weird because when people look to buy an EV cost is an issue yet they are rarely driving the cheapest vehicle they could be in so why does an EV become about cost ?
Many SUVs are useful for families with kids, dogs etc. They're not just a vanity purchase, it's a vehicle you can use. Small cars are a struggle for some people. What mpg do you think an SUV does or doesn't do?
I'm as guilty as we've had a few SUV and each one used more fuel than the car equivalent size wise, Kuga used more fuel than focus estate, GLC used more fuel than C Class estate, X3 used more fuel than 3 series and 5 series estate, sportage used more fuel than ceed estate. All handled worse than the cars and all had more expensive tyres and servicing. All had equivalent engines. In the case of the kuga and GLC they did 35mpg compared to 50mpg for the cars, same driver same use.
Back with a big estate car now which is bigger than all the SUV we've had and doing more mpg than all of them.
There just isn't a genuine argument for them
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:55 pm
by Ant
Couchy wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:43 pm
Ant wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:24 pm
Couchy wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:22 pm
I just don't know about the whole EV thing despite being in the industry. Maybe a push towards 50mpg petrol hybrids would be a better start as they are much less polluting than diesel, maybe a push towards smaller cars and to get rid of SUV which are nothing more than a vanity purchase. If everyone was in a smaller car doing more mpg it would be a much better start. The popularity of SUV can't have done the environment much good when most owners could have had amore economical car. It's weird because when people look to buy an EV cost is an issue yet they are rarely driving the cheapest vehicle they could be in so why does an EV become about cost ?
Many SUVs are useful for families with kids, dogs etc. They're not just a vanity purchase, it's a vehicle you can use. Small cars are a struggle for some people. What mpg do you think an SUV does or doesn't do?
I'm as guilty as we've had a few SUV and each one used more fuel than the car equivalent size wise, Kuga used more fuel than focus estate, GLC used more fuel than C Class estate, X3 used more fuel than 3 series and 5 series estate, sportage used more fuel than ceed estate. All handled worse than the cars and all had more expensive tyres and servicing. All had equivalent engines. In the case of the kuga and GLC they did 35mpg compared to 50mpg for the cars, same driver same use.
Back with a big estate car now which is bigger than all the SUV we've had and doing more mpg than all of them.
There just isn't a genuine argument for them
To be fair, you haven't exactly picked the most efficient SUVs.
Plus no one needs an argument for them, people have a choice and if it does indeed use more fuel, they'll be paying for it.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:09 pm
by Pirahna
I'm just about to buy a Dacia Duster, I suppose that counts as an SUV.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:13 pm
by Slenver
Couchy wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:43 pm
Back with a big estate car now which is bigger than all the SUV we've had and doing more mpg than all of them.
There just isn't a genuine argument for them
Agreed.
My missus really wants a big, comfy SUV next, something like an X5. I continue to work on her to steer her towards a 5-series estate which, with the same engines, will be faster, quieter, more comfortable, better riding, better handling, more economical, cheaper on parts, more practical and significantly cheaper to buy 2nd hand.
But she likes the looks of SUVs.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:14 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Plus you can actually park it.
It's half way between comedy and tragedy, watching all the mums and dads (and it is both) failing to manoeuvre their X5s and Cayennes around the school car park.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:22 pm
by Slenver
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:14 pm
Plus you can actually park it.
It's half way between comedy and tragedy, watching all the mums and dads (and it is both) failing to manoeuvre their X5s and Cayennes around the school car park.
In her defence, my missus is a very good driver and has had all kinds of tanks in the past with no trouble. But, as discussed before, cars are getting bigger and parking spaces and roads are not. There are only so many Waitrose spaces that'll comfortably fit a 2m+ wide SUV.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:25 pm
by Slenver
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:32 pmIf you actually work out how much of the fuel in a car moves
you and not just the car itself it's tiny. Like 1% tiny!
In fairness, I'm a big fan generally of my car coming along with me
Ant wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:36 pm If you're a single person who does nothing, a Fiat 500 might do.
Our current 'family' car for three of us is a Fiat 500. In the main, it's fine. All cars are large these days. We've done about 30k miles in the last couple of years in it all round the country.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:26 pm
by Count Steer
Pirahna wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:09 pm
I'm just about to buy a Dacia Duster, I suppose that counts as an SUV.
They're in a class of their own...the 'mighty' class IIRC.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:31 pm
by Greenman
Pirahna wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:09 pm
I'm just about to buy a Dacia Duster, I suppose that counts as an SUV.
Yes, the ugliest SUV ever made....
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:33 pm
by Ant
Slenver wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:25 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:32 pmIf you actually work out how much of the fuel in a car moves
you and not just the car itself it's tiny. Like 1% tiny!
In fairness, I'm a big fan generally of my car coming along with me
When I'm merrily bimbling along the road, it is handy if the car comes along too
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:36 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Slenver wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:25 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:32 pmIf you actually work out how much of the fuel in a car moves
you and not just the car itself it's tiny. Like 1% tiny!
In fairness, I'm a big fan generally of my car coming along with me
Does make you realise just how much money you waste though. Couple of pence in every litre of fuel you buy is actually "useful".
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:38 pm
by Ant
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:36 pm
Slenver wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:25 pm
Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:32 pmIf you actually work out how much of the fuel in a car moves
you and not just the car itself it's tiny. Like 1% tiny!
In fairness, I'm a big fan generally of my car coming along with me
Does make you realise just how much money you waste though. Couple of pence in every litre of fuel you buy is actually "useful".
It's not a waste, it's a use.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:42 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Nope, it's wasted I'd say.
60-80% of the fuel you buy does nothing more than heat up the air around your car. Unless you're trying to very badly heat your garage, I'd call that a waste
Of the remaining 20-40% only a tiny fraction of that moves you, which is presumably why you're in the car. The rest is for dragging the car about. The point of the journey is to move you, not all the other bits, is it not?
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:45 pm
by Ant
It's not wasted, it's used. It's used to take you and stuff a distance you can't walk or can't do on public transport.
If it was wasted, it'd be doing it with no one in the car at all.
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:48 pm
by Couchy
Pirahna wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:09 pm
I'm just about to buy a Dacia Duster, I suppose that counts as an SUV.
Is it 4wd, do you need 4wd or the ground clearance ? What's wrong with an estate car ?
Re: Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:50 pm
by Mr. Dazzle
Couchy wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:48 pm
Pirahna wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:09 pm
I'm just about to buy a Dacia Duster, I suppose that counts as an SUV.
Is it 4wd, do you need 4wd or the ground clearance ? What's wrong with an estate car ?
There's some irony in that much of what gets called an SUV these days is neither sporty nor utilitarian.