Afghanistan

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Horse
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Horse »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:16 am
the backing of big tech who simply deleted any and all accounts which dared voice concerns over current events (at the time).

YouTube algorithm
I can't remember who, but there was someone on here complaining about how YouTube had removed certain videos from search results, ie censorship.

Two minutes checking confirmed, indeed, certain search terms didn't easily list that video.

The same search terms in Google (for anyone who doesn't know, owner of Yt), displayed the video.

So not really censorship, probably just an algorithm.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by wheelnut »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:16 am Such ineptitude beggars belief.
Has it ever been any different? From the first and second world wars, through to vietnam, NI and iraq 'ineptitude' has always been an obvious part of any war. Normally when viewed with the benefit of hindsight.

As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to pick through it but it comes across as a pretty blinkered, polarised and slighty paranoid view Screwd.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Mussels »

Whoever is president would make little difference in Afghanistan, they are both relying on the same people for advice and would probably have done things the same way. Both badly wanted out of Afghanistan and both want someone there who can stop ISIS.
There may be differences between them elsewhere but I don't see much on this topic.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Cousin Jack »

Bwana wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:18 am
Yeah, it's a rich man's game, however some of the candidates in 2020 were not millionaires.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexand ... 0076fa37c5

BTW, what is your average MP's net worth?
No idea, there are a lot of rich MPs, but a fair number of relatively poor ones. Never mind candidates, name me a poor(ish) President in the last 50 years. Anyone can be a candidate, but without the money they stand no chance of election.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Mussels »

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:06 pm
Bwana wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:18 am
Yeah, it's a rich man's game, however some of the candidates in 2020 were not millionaires.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexand ... 0076fa37c5

BTW, what is your average MP's net worth?
No idea, there are a lot of rich MPs, but a fair number of relatively poor ones. Never mind candidates, name me a poor(ish) President in the last 50 years. Anyone can be a candidate, but without the money they stand no chance of election.
I can't think of any poor prime ministers which would be a better comparison, you need to move in the right circles for both.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Cousin Jack »

Mussels wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:25 pm I can't think of any poor prime ministers which would be a better comparison, you need to move in the right circles for both.
Certainly not poor poor, but most recent PMs have not been really rich until after they have been PM. Tony Blair had a well-paid wife, but really made his money big time after he left the job. Ditto DC, probably richer than me from the day he was born, but the real millions arrived later, via some dubious deals.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Screwdriver »

Jesus wept. So this level of failure is "ok" because worse things have happened before?

That's the excuse? That's why my concerns are so "paranoid?"

It was always going to be chaotic, we expected chaos, there's nothing we could have done different, I stand by my decision... All paraphrased from the president of the USA. The most powerful military force on the entire planet, could not have evacuated troops, personnel and friendlies before suddenly, without any warning, packing up and leaving?

That's just business as usual? FFS.

Oh and sure, not all videos and channels are removed. They can be delisted, derated, flagged etc, there are any number of ways to skew the entire visible output from the public via social media. The Taliban current "leaders"..., well, see for yourself: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58235639

These are the people who have inherited $85 billion in state of the art weapons. They are the people the Biden administration have asked nicely if they would please allow American citizens and their allies to go to the airport. They are the ones with a "kill list" handed over to them by the US, possibly the most evil backwards terrorist group currently in operation. But their videos are not banned or censored, their leaders still have active Twitter accounts and yet a former president of the US is still literally, banned. What the fuck is up with that?
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Yorick »

There's a helluva lot of hatred and anger here. Wierdos.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by wheelnut »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:54 pm Jesus wept. So this level of failure is "ok" because worse things have happened before?
You'll get no arguments from me that's it a clusterfuck Screwd, or that Biden is a wonderful president. My feeling is that if the best that a country like the US can muster up as two candiates are Trump and Biden then it's a sign that their presidential and party system has gone very wrong.

But withdrawing troops from afganistan is like a giant game of jenga, with the US troops being the key block, Pull that out and the whole thing will come tumbling down and at about the same speed. Whether it happens now, next week or next year it will be the same end result.

The timeline has been extended by Biden, but since the reduction to 2500 troops keeping them there is unteneble, for their own saftey as much as anything. The two choices are to get out or bolster it back up to an effective force. And the second option isn't politically viable.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timel ... ghanistan/
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Screwdriver »

wheelnut wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:21 pm
Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:54 pm Jesus wept. So this level of failure is "ok" because worse things have happened before?
You'll get no arguments from me that's it a clusterfuck Screwd, or that Biden is a wonderful president. My feeling is that if the best that a country like the US can muster up as two candiates are Trump and Biden then it's a sign that their presidential and party system has gone very wrong.

But withdrawing troops from afganistan is like a giant game of jenga, with the US troops being the key block, Pull that out and the whole thing will come tumbling down and at about the same speed. Whether it happens now, next week or next year it will be the same end result.

The timeline has been extended by Biden, but since the reduction to 2500 troops keeping them there is unteneble, for their own saftey as much as anything. The two choices are to get out or bolster it back up to an effective force. And the second option isn't politically viable.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timel ... ghanistan/
Yeah I hear you, I don't disagree with that sentiment one bit. I'm really not a Trump fan, I thought his being elected pres was hilarious - albeit in a good way.

I would just reiterate the problem with "planned chaos"; if you're going to remove the entire US military and grab that great big Jenga at the bottom, you should probably think about saving some of the pieces at the top first, before the whole tower comes tumbling down.

The US promised safety to all the so called SIV's and of course allied troops, all of whom were dependant on their military presence and unwavering support. For Biden to just pull them out without warning well, that's just idiotic.

More stories are coming out, things which admittedly are driven by hindsight but tbh, it hadn't occurred to me how many known ISIS terrorists were being held in prison. Answer: thousands. And they all just got let out, just in time to find pandemonium at the airport and a big fat soft target full of Americans.

Some of the stories out there really do not bear repeating. I think we all remember some of the stunts that Al Qaeda and ISIS were pulling to "shock" the world. Well, they're at it again. It seems the depth of evil is a bottomless pit.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by irie »

I believe that there remain about 1,100 people who are eligible for transport from Afghanistan to the UK, and a total of over 10,000 eligible for transport out of Afghanistan to other countries. Because of the withdrawal deadline they will not have flights out and will therefore have to "make their own ways" out of Afghanistan. Yeah, right.

Biden has been trying to use the ISIS-K attack as a 'dead cat'* to draw attention away from his disastrous fuck up, but it will not work.

Biden is finished.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Le_Fromage_Grande »

Yorick wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:58 pm There's a helluva lot of hatred and anger here. Wierdos.
I suspect there's a shortage of tin foil caused by Brexit
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Bwana »

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:06 pm
Bwana wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:18 am
Yeah, it's a rich man's game, however some of the candidates in 2020 were not millionaires.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexand ... 0076fa37c5

BTW, what is your average MP's net worth?
No idea, there are a lot of rich MPs, but a fair number of relatively poor ones. Never mind candidates, name me a poor(ish) President in the last 50 years. Anyone can be a candidate, but without the money they stand no chance of election.
You have no idea? Isn't it a bit rich to denigrate one side of the pond without an awareness of the wealth on your own? Wealth and power have a tendency to be close companions.
I get the impression that the vast majority of MPs are rather wealthy. The British pound is a bit more precious than the US dollar, so that needs to be considered in the accounting. The comparison of the President your MPs is a bit apples and oranges anyway. The MPs aren't exactly equivalent to the President. Wouldn't the PM be a better comparison? Your MPs are more comparable to our legislators in the Senate and the House. I suspect the incomes are probably comparable. Does your criticism of our democracy apply to the UK's brand of democracy?
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Bwana »

Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:57 am but there was little or no violence.


I got to the bit I quoted and had to stop reading because, well to put it bluntly, you're full of shit. Little to no violence? You must have your nose glued to Fox. They were shattering windows in an attempt to storm the Capitol building. They got in and wreaked havoc. A mob ran amok in areas that were closed to the public (i.e. the entire building). A gallows was constructed outside. Not a mock up cardboard facsimile, a full fledged gallows. Shit was smeared on surfaces. Literal shit, not just random stuff, but human excrement. Offices were ransacked. Weapons were recovered. Several police were injured. There were massive clashes between the mob and the police who were phenomenally out numbered. Violence was rampant. Or do you think the police that stated it was are liars? There was delay getting the National Guard on site. The National Guard in DC is subordinate solely to the President. There were calls to the President to send them that were met with a significantly delayed response while the President watched the shitstorm unfold on TV.

I mention the wall because you brought it into the discussion as if it was one of Trump's accomplishments. So stop pretending it isn't a valid component of discussion. Especially after you claimed to be against propaganda.

Biden may have stopped construction on the wall, but that had fuck all to do with the structural integrity, or lack of structural integrity. There was a stretch that fell over before Biden took office. Video was posted of people readily breaching it, either with battery operated reciprocating walls or ropes. The wall was and is a massive joke, and an expensive one. It isn't exactly good for the environment. It was also opposed by local populations as it encroached on their access to lands through eminent domain.

Seriously fella, you've lapped up right wing propaganda like a dog raiding an unkempt cat litter tray.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Screwdriver »

Bwana wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:14 am
Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:57 am but there was little or no violence.
I got to the bit I quoted and had to stop reading because, well to put it bluntly, you're full of shit.
shattering windows
havoc
amok
Shit
Wow, so we agree then. little or no violence.

Oh and Trump is a failure because a bit of wall fell down?? Don't make me laugh. The wall is not merely a physical barrier you muppet.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Bwana »

Screwdriver wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:54 am
Bwana wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:14 am
Screwdriver wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:57 am but there was little or no violence.
I got to the bit I quoted and had to stop reading because, well to put it bluntly, you're full of shit.
shattering windows
havoc
amok
Shit
Wow, so we agree then. little or no violence.

Oh and Trump is a failure because a bit of wall fell down?? Don't make me laugh. The wall is not merely a physical barrier you muppet.
LOLz! 639 individuals charged, 140 police officers injured, $1.5 million in damages to the Capitol building. The FBI calls it an act of domestic terrorism. Yeah, it was a friggin family gathering. I think I'll consider the testimony of the police officers that were there as well as the FBI over some anonymous tool on the intertubes. I suppose 4 May 1970 at Kent State was a picnic and Auschwitz was a fat camp for Jews by your standards. Godwin's law was suspended in 2017.

That wall? It's supposed to keep people from crossing the border. It doesn't. That is the purpose. It's a huge failure. Expensive too. A fine testament to Trump's accomplishments.

Muppet indeed.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Screwdriver »

Bwana wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:41 pm
LOLz! 639 individuals charged, 140 police officers injured, $1.5 million in damages to the Capitol building. The FBI calls it an act of domestic terrorism. Yeah, it was a friggin family gathering. I think I'll consider the testimony of the police officers that were there as well as the FBI over some anonymous tool on the intertubes. I suppose 4 May 1970 at Kent State was a picnic and Auschwitz was a fat camp for Jews by your standards. Godwin's law was suspended in 2017.

That wall? It's supposed to keep people from crossing the border. It doesn't. That is the purpose. It's a huge failure. Expensive too. A fine testament to Trump's accomplishments.

Muppet indeed.
Wow! So because “the police” are bursting into tears over losing crowd control, that’s a terrorist incident. But you’re right, people walking all over the floor, sitting in chairs, it was mayhem. 140 stress related “injuries” I’ll wager. Only one person was murdered, one of the protesters. A police officer died several days later (at work) with a heart attack, several other of the crowd also had heart attacks. It really shows the “quality” of those “infiltrators” half of whom couldn’t jog to the nearest McDonalds.

Oh and it also shows the quality of the reporting when that officer it was claimed, died at the scene to pictures of someone setting off a fire extinguisher and claims of it being used as a club.

We will never get to see the truth. There must be hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage from that demonstration. Where is all that footage? Coming so soon after the burning, looting and murder brigade had destroyed so many inner cities, I would e pact to see some carnage, if this event is supposed to be worse. Maybe you could point me at some footage showing the carnage. Seems to me it has all been withheld. Wonder why that is? Perhaps because it looks like a group of tourists on a visit to the museum.

Your comparison with the Holocaust is beneath contempt.

“The wall” was never completed and yet it did work. Factually reducing the flood of illegal immigrants, drugs and people traffickers no matter how you attempt to spin it, the numbers went down dramatically. On the other hand, when the puppet president Biden was installed, the border became a massive crisis. So bad the mainstream media and big tech never show it. Kamala Harris had to be dragged kicking and screaming to make a show of “visiting” even if she needed up at an airport hundreds of miles away from the epicentre.

Looks like whoever is controlling Biden has decided they better put some of Trumps policies back in place. After deliberately and systematically removing all of Trumps work, they have realised they’re actually making a right mess of it. In fact I’d go as far as to say this administration have made a mess of everything they have done so far.

Except possibly the riot at the capitol, they have played that quite well. It would appear a fair few simple minded folk actually believe it was a “terrorist attack” and an “insurrection”.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Horse »

Hoonercat wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:38 pm
Screwdriver wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:04 pm There must be hundreds if not thousands of hours of footage from that demonstration. Where is all that footage?
Here you go, HTH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWJVMoe7OY0
Image

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Re: Afghanistan

Post by Screwdriver »

This is veering off the subject of Afghanistan which, coincidentally, is top of the list of monumental fuckups this overhyped "insurrection" is designed to do. "Look. A dead cat!". Convince simple minded folk that this riotous act was the worst excess of "domestic terrorism" and therefore requires state intervention to tell you exactly how to think, which words to use and to justify state sponsored censorship via big tech/partisan media.

I am curious however where all the violence is even in that hour long propaganda film. That's not the security footage I refer to, it is a carefully edited montage. There's a broken window and someone kicking in a door. Coming so soon after the extraordinary riots and looting, it looks so tame. I've seen more violence outside a football match. Obviously that's the capitol building so whoever took part in this outrageous act of vandalism should be punished severely but how on earth did that happen so easily?

Sorry for anyone who can't see this obvious bias everywhere, you may continue to believe what you're being told. The rest of us can see through this power grab for what it is; the beginnings of an authoritarian state.
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Re: Afghanistan

Post by weeksy »

Screwdriver wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:33 pm
Sorry for anyone who can't see this obvious bias everywhere, you may continue to believe what you're being told. The rest of us can see through this power grab for what it is; the beginnings of an authoritarian state.
This is where you start making a rod for your own back. You can't just tell people "I'm right and you're wrong" because different people believe different things.

Who's to say they're not right and you're wrong, well yes, you. But you may be wrong.