Covid - newsworthy

[mangocrazy]

Crosseyed and Painless - Talking Heads:

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things

[irie]

I think alcohol misuse has got more to do with late night posting on here than facts

Is that a fact?

[irie]

Letter to the Telegraph, couldn't agree more.

SIR – As a solicitor recently working for a major public inquiry, I increasingly despair of the Covid Inquiry.

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns. Real-world data emerging suggests that the long-term collateral damage outweighs any short-term benefits.

A useful exercise would be to assess lockdown as a “drug” and ask whether, applying National Institute for Health and Care Excellence criteria of quality-adjusted life years, it would have been approved, given that Covid deaths occurred mostly among the elderly – and the side-effects, in terms of health, society and the economy, are incalculable and potentially catastrophic. The inquiry appears uninterested in such issues, however.

Gary Graves
Richmond, Surrey

[weeksy]

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns.

Is it ?

[Yambo]

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns.

Is it ?

It may well be if the Chinese decide to release another 'new' virus into the population.

[weeksy]

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns.

Is it ?

It may well be if the Chinese decide to release another 'new' virus into the population.

Would it though, really ? I'm not convinced. Whether the figures support lock-down or not, the government will decide and you/we will be forced to either go with lockdown or ignore it.. It doesn't matter really because no-one actually knows the answers. If lockdown was effective then there would still potentially be a fair few countries who didn't get Covid for ages... but they did... Because you cannot lock down 100% with certainty... Not only can you NOT... but governments won't...

So whether it works or not, is of no importance.

[Count Steer]

I don't see how it can't 'work'. If you reduce the number of interactions between people diseases don't spread as quickly/extensively. If I'd stayed home throughout, left parcels on the doorstep for a few hours etc, I wouldn't have caught it.

What exercises people really is they don't think it was 'worth it'. The cost to the economy, the mental issues etc vs the death toll. That was the key factor in 'eat out to spread covid' thing - keep businesses in business vs the inevitable impact on the spread of the disease.

If the enquiry said, definitively, that lockdown saved lives and reduced pressure on the NHS people would still say 'Yebbut, at what cost?'

*shrug*

[irie]

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns.

Is it ?

Yes, it is, so that in the event of future pandemics better informed decisions can be made.

[Timmy]

Are there still people out there who think lockdowns were a good idea, or at least think they weren't a bad idea, for what was basically re-badged flu?

[weeksy]

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns.

Is it ?

Yes, it is, so that in the event of future pandemics better informed decisions can be made.

Can they? you believe that ?

[Horse]

... for what was basically re-badged flu?

At what point was it really understood what 'it' was?

[irie]

Is it ?

Yes, it is, so that in the event of future pandemics better informed decisions can be made.

Can they? you believe that ?

Given all the cock-ups with PPE, Nightingale hospitals, and dodgy computer models for example then yes, I do believe that being better prepared would be worthwhile.

[Taipan]

I think one of the outcomes of the covid enquiry will be the ban on camera use at govt staff parties! In all seriousness, the cost of the furlough scheme and the diminish of tax receipts during lockdown was a proper kick in the fiscals and need to be learnt from.

[wheelnut]

Are there still people out there who think lockdowns were a good idea, or at least think they weren't a bad idea, for what was basically re-badged flu?

Your certainty on that is based on what evidence?

It was the most palatable of two very unpalatable scenarios.

[gremlin]

Are there still people out there who think lockdowns were a good idea, or at least think they weren't a bad idea, for what was basically re-badged flu?

Well, not from this corner.

Of course, we can all be wise after the event, and I support the Covid inquest in principle, but fuck me, it's fast becoming a witch-hunt.

[DefTrap]

Letter to the Telegraph, couldn't agree more.

SIR – As a solicitor recently working for a major public inquiry, I increasingly despair of the Covid Inquiry.

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns. Real-world data emerging suggests that the long-term collateral damage outweighs any short-term benefits.

A useful exercise would be to assess lockdown as a “drug” and ask whether, applying National Institute for Health and Care Excellence criteria of quality-adjusted life years, it would have been approved, given that Covid deaths occurred mostly among the elderly – and the side-effects, in terms of health, society and the economy, are incalculable and potentially catastrophic. The inquiry appears uninterested in such issues, however.

Gary Graves
Richmond, Surrey

It would be interesting and useful, but I doubt it's possible because of the sizeable proportion of people who had to carry on despite lockdown and also those that just flouted it (and amongst the latter scant regard for whether they protected themselves with PPE, tested, isolated etc). Any statistics gathered would be so full of holes, an inquiry to sort that out would last decades.

The "given that Covid deaths occurred mostly among the elderly" is an unnecessary qualification. My folks, 80s, survived the pandemic - I'm grateful for that. I think we need to remember that lockdown was a last ditch attempt to save the overload on hospitals which was in freefall for a lot of the time.

[mangocrazy]

I think we need to remember that lockdown was a last ditch attempt to save the overload on hospitals which was in freefall for a lot of the time.

^^^

This.

[irie]

Letter to the Telegraph, couldn't agree more.

SIR – As a solicitor recently working for a major public inquiry, I increasingly despair of the Covid Inquiry.

It is vital that we learn whether non-pharmaceutical interventions worked – in particular, lockdowns. Real-world data emerging suggests that the long-term collateral damage outweighs any short-term benefits.

A useful exercise would be to assess lockdown as a “drug” and ask whether, applying National Institute for Health and Care Excellence criteria of quality-adjusted life years, it would have been approved, given that Covid deaths occurred mostly among the elderly – and the side-effects, in terms of health, society and the economy, are incalculable and potentially catastrophic. The inquiry appears uninterested in such issues, however.

Gary Graves
Richmond, Surrey

It would be interesting and useful, but I doubt it's possible because of the sizeable proportion of people who had to carry on despite lockdown and also those that just flouted it (and amongst the latter scant regard for whether they protected themselves with PPE, tested, isolated etc). Any statistics gathered would be so full of holes, an inquiry to sort that out would last decades.

The "given that Covid deaths occurred mostly among the elderly" is an unnecessary qualification. My folks, 80s, survived the pandemic - I'm grateful for that. I think we need to remember that lockdown was a last ditch attempt to save the overload on hospitals which was in freefall for a lot of the time.

I think we need to remember that there were two lockdowns, the first in March 2020 and the second in November 2020.

[Greenman]

This forum is so lucky to have so many qualified medical experts.
Never a hint of "I think" or IMHO.

Everything is slammed down as 100% fact.

Aren't we lucky ?

Ganja cures all known varients of the corona virus, fact...

[DefTrap]

I think we need to remember that there were two lockdowns, the first in March 2020 and the second in November 2020.

Fair enough, what's your point?

Like I say, it would be interesting. Both times they were emergency reactions to stress on hospitals - how much stress was released by lockdown is arguable (although I'm seeing precious little here). What price would we put on the total failure of the hospital system and the potential knock-on effects of that.?

You might say it's a pointless investigation and easier to work on the obvious solution : more hospitals, more doctors and nurses, more equipment. Oh, and more bodybags.