Afghanistan

[irie]

If a conversation is written down word for word and read back it usually looks worse than it was, ask anyone who has heard the transcript of a police interview read out in court.

This was not simply a 'conversation', it was an interview with the President of the United States carefully arranged by ABC News, an organisation of ~70,000 employees, with the White House which one assumes vetted the questions to be asked.

If you read the transcript bearing the above in mind then Biden does not appear to be compos mentis.

[DefTrap]

ABC news edited its interview with Joe Biden, and is accused of removing the most incoherent and confused parts. Here is a full transcript of the interview, you can judge for yourselves.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-tr ... d=79535643

Full transcript of ABC News' George Stephanopoulos' interview with President Joe Biden.

By comparison, Biden makes Reagan look like a model of coherency.

Potus or pm is a job for younger people, that's a fact. It's a tough job, stressful. Yes you have to make a lot of speeches, you can't just be a glove puppet, turning up and reading the lines.

But, feck off, you've just had trump, the most incoherent and bumbling spastic of all time, so you go and elect another one?
I say tough shit.

[Screwdriver]

Potus or pm is a job for younger people, that's a fact. It's a tough job, stressful. Yes you have to make a lot of speeches, you can't just be a glove puppet, turning up and reading the lines.

But, feck off, you've just had trump, the most incoherent and bumbling spastic of all time, so you go and elect another one?
I say tough shit.

Biden makes Trump look a lot better than the media propaganda would have you believe.

Didn't Trump have peace break out all over the middle east? Then shut the border on illegal immigration with the wall the electorate clearly wanted to have built.

Now Biden has deliberately and systematically destroyed all the work Trump had done, he's managed to stir up trouble in the middle east, rekindled the fires for Al Qaeda and left the Southern border wide open. What's the worst that could happen?

Whoever is really running the USA wanted to make a ridiculous point of leaving Afghanistan on 9/11, no matter the cost to civilian lives. Whip out the military support and leave the non-combatants/expats literally stranded. The Taliban might be backwards but they're not stupid. If Biden wants to rewrite the meaning for that memorable date, I have a horrible feeling the Taliban will happily oblige.

We haven't heard the last of this yet, nor sadly, seen the worst.

[slowsider]

Didn't Trump have peace break out all over the middle east?

You surely don't mean to include moving the embassy to Jerusalem in that...

[Horse]

the wall the electorate clearly wanted to have built.

'Paid for by Mexico', wasn't that the election promise?

[irie]

ABC news edited its interview with Joe Biden, and is accused of removing the most incoherent and confused parts. Here is a full transcript of the interview, you can judge for yourselves.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-tr ... d=79535643

Full transcript of ABC News' George Stephanopoulos' interview with President Joe Biden.

By comparison, Biden makes Reagan look like a model of coherency.

Potus or pm is a job for younger people, that's a fact. It's a tough job, stressful. Yes you have to make a lot of speeches, you can't just be a glove puppet, turning up and reading the lines.

But, feck off, you've just had trump, the most incoherent and bumbling spastic of all time, so you go and elect another one?
I say tough shit.

As a British citizen I have had nothing to do with the election of Trump, Biden, or any other POTUS for that matter. Or about as much as you have while holed up in your idyllic Charente-Maritime gaff.

[Bwana]

Then shut the border on illegal immigration with the wall the electorate clearly wanted to have built.

That got a genuine LOL from me.

The electorate didn't clearly want that environmentally damaging, worthless for its purpose, and incredibly expensive waste of materials. Just the mongs that are fearful of melanin.

What he had done was replace a few miles of existing fence and construct a nominal amount of new wall. All the while the majority of the folks that are here illegally have come in legally and stayed longer than permitted. That wall ain't doing shit to stem the flow of foreigners.

Trump was "negotiating" an exit from Afghanistan. Signed off on 29 Feb 2020 with a promise to be out by May 2021. We really did need to get the fuck out of there as it was just a massive financial drain for naught. Unfortunately he failed to include any officials from Afghanistan in that negotiation. Only the Taliban got a seat at the table. In exchange for a promise to be really really really very nice, the Taliban got 5000 of their own released from prison. Trump even included a departure date in that agreement. Biden held off a few months. You'd think that folks on the ground, like US citizens, would see the light and get the hell out of dodge unless their presence was vital.

Too bad we went into Afghanistan in the first place. History repeating itself, eh? The Taliban had more than a year to prepare for their take over. Afghan troops saw the writing on the wall and just dropped their gear. Biden's failure was in not seeing them taking control in a flash

Trump's one and only accomplishment was the massive tax gift to the wealthiest Americans. Income tax cuts were temporary while corporate cuts were permanent. Funny thing about wealth, it's a finite quantity. Shifting it upward like has been happening in this country for the majority of my life does fuck all for the majority of Americans. Yet they still vote for Republicans.

[Screwdriver]

That got a genuine LOL from me.

Much as the Biden/Obama administration and their wholly pwnd mainstream media would like you to believe Trump is STILL to blame for everything, I have resisted the brainwash. I merely highlight the disastrous current administration, not for their personality traits but the factually disatrous results of their policies.

Again, this is not a discussion regarding the entire shit-show that the Obiden admin has become, just the massive cock up in Afghanistan. The planned withdrawal was predicated upon the Taliban not killing any more Americans (or the deal was off).

I shouldn't have to point out the catastrophic ineptitude of this long planned withdrawal other than the relatively new information regarding the sheer volume of state of the art weaponry which was left behind to fall into the hands of a rag bag of feudal so called Taliban. Billions and billions of $$$, enough to make the Taliban the best armed militia the world has ever seen.

Chances are these disparate groups of evil religious zealots will be busy arguing among themselves as Afghanistan hurtles backwards in time into the Dark Ages. If I was a local warlord, I wouldn't be handing my cache of small arms over to anyone and all the fantastically complex weapon systems would be heading straight off to eBay.

"Black Hawk helicopters, A-29 Super Tocano bombers, armoured Humvees, drones and night vision goggles are among the billions of dollars worth of US military weaponry that has reportedly been seized by the Taliban.

Images of Taliban fighters posing with M4 carbines and M16 rifles and opening crates of firearms, drones and night-vision goggles are circulating in the media, part of a propaganda victory as the militant group tries to establish their credentials as a legitimate governing force.

A US official told Reuters on Thursday that the Taliban were believed to have taken possession of more than 2,000 armoured vehicles and up to 40 aircraft, potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters, and ScanEagle military drones."

From : https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 06175.html

So while they might not be able to use these weapons (other than the impressive array of small arms) there will be a queue of dealers itching to get their hands on the super tech goodies for hard cash. Then of course you wonder, where might this breathtaking arsenal of state of the art weaponry actually end up? Pakistan? Russia? China? All of the above? Finally you think to yourself, "hmm, small world, suddenly develops a blip in the availability of weapons to strictly anti-western interests".

What's the worst that could happen?

[slowsider]

There hasn't exactly been a shortage of proxy conflicts prior to the Taliban windfall.

[Yambo]

Much as the Biden/Obama administration and their wholly pwnd mainstream media would like you to believe Trump is STILL to blame for everything, I have resisted the brainwash. I merely highlight the disastrous current administration, not for their personality traits but the factually disatrous results of their policies.

Having talks with the Taliban early last year and completely ignoring/excluding the 'elected' Afghan government tells its own story doesn't it.

I shouldn't have to point out the catastrophic ineptitude of this long planned withdrawal other than the relatively new information regarding the sheer volume of state of the art weaponry which was left behind to fall into the hands of a rag bag of feudal so called Taliban. Billions and billions of $$$, enough to make the Taliban the best armed militia the world has ever seen.

Chances are these disparate groups of evil religious zealots will be busy arguing among themselves as Afghanistan hurtles backwards in time into the Dark Ages. If I was a local warlord, I wouldn't be handing my cache of small arms over to anyone and all the fantastically complex weapon systems would be heading straight off to eBay.

"Black Hawk helicopters, A-29 Super Tocano bombers, armoured Humvees, drones and night vision goggles are among the billions of dollars worth of US military weaponry that has reportedly been seized by the Taliban.

Images of Taliban fighters posing with M4 carbines and M16 rifles and opening crates of firearms, drones and night-vision goggles are circulating in the media, part of a propaganda victory as the militant group tries to establish their credentials as a legitimate governing force.

A US official told Reuters on Thursday that the Taliban were believed to have taken possession of more than 2,000 armoured vehicles and up to 40 aircraft, potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters, and ScanEagle military drones."

From : https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 06175.html

So while they might not be able to use these weapons (other than the impressive array of small arms) there will be a queue of dealers itching to get their hands on the super tech goodies for hard cash. Then of course you wonder, where might this breathtaking arsenal of state of the art weaponry actually end up? Pakistan? Russia? China? All of the above? Finally you think to yourself, "hmm, small world, suddenly develops a blip in the availability of weapons to strictly anti-western interests".

What's the worst that could happen?

The worst has happened.

America is a huge arms dealer so are quite happy to provide any tin pot dictatorship with weapons. The only difference here and the worst thing for the US is they haven't been paid for the stuff. Well, the arms manufacturers have been paid so it's maybe not the worst.

[Screwdriver]

Having talks with the Taliban early last year and completely ignoring/excluding the 'elected' Afghan government tells its own story doesn't it.

The worst has happened.

America is a huge arms dealer so are quite happy to provide any tin pot dictatorship with weapons. The only difference here and the worst thing for the US is they haven't been paid for the stuff. Well, the arms manufacturers have been paid so it's maybe not the worst.

I don't know who said what to whom to be honest. I have heard reports that the "government" were "excluded" but not dug into the source to establish the veracity of those claims. So easy for the mainstream media to lie that, for example:

"The US state department had discussions with the Taliban and excluded the Afghan government"

And...

"The US state department had talks today with the Afghan government"

...are not mutually exclusive statements. Difficult to believe the US state department never had any "talks" with the president of Afghanistan. :dunno:

As for your other comment, we may have to agree to disagree. I fear the worst is yet to come...

[Mussels]

In future US allies will remember to get out first and Americans will complain allies are deserting them.
I think possibly the biggest mistake was Biden talking about when rather than if the Taliban would take over, that must have been very demoralising for Afghan troops.

[Horse]

I don't know who said what to whom to be honest. I have heard reports that the "government" were "excluded" but not dug into the source to establish the veracity of those claims. So easy for the mainstream media to lie

You don't know who said what, but you know the media lie? Ok ... Well, here's couple that support both sides of the discussion: the government were excluded, but had separate talks. Although 'hung out to dry' or similar would seem appropriate. "We're off home, you two play nicely."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51689443.amp

The US and the Taliban have signed an "agreement for bringing peace" to Afghanistan after more than 18 years of conflict.

The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal.

President Trump said it had been a "long and hard journey" in Afghanistan. "It's time after all these years to bring our people back home," he said.

Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.

https://amp.france24.com/en/middle-east ... settlement

Senior representatives of the Kabul government including head of the High Council for National Reconciliation Abdullah Abdullah flew in for two days of intensive talks as the hardline Islamist movement pushes a sweeping offensive across Afghanistan.

They had sought to revive long-stalled peace talks, but in a joint statement agreed on the need to reach a "just solution" and to meet again "next week".

[Screwdriver]

You don't know who said what, but you know the media lie? Ok ...

Well that is exactly what I thought the "real" situation would have been and entirely consistent with the above two "contrary" statements. That's modern media for you, report only the "facts" which suit your narrative. Thankfully we are beginning to see the media are starting to turn on this sham presidency as all the failures begin to stack up.

Anyhow where does this "they didn't include the Afghan government in discussions" thing come from? I have seen that claim a fair few times.

Instead of following the Trump withdrawal plan, "Biden" decides to unilaterally pull the rug out by removing the entire US military without warning the UN or any of the other embedded foreign troops. He also left the "collaborators" and civilian workforce to fend for themselves while simultaneously arming possibly the biggest threat to western democracy with a massive cache of state of the art modern weaponry.

Other unconfirmed (?) reports are emerging that the former, US backed Afghan troops have been/are being summarily executed.

I honestly don't think we have even begun to see the worst of the fallout from this debacle.

[wheelnut]

I honestly don't think we have even begun to see the worst of the fallout from this debacle.

I think they'll be less tnan you think, at least in a political sense for Biden.

Americans don't have the same interest in foreign policy as the british/europeans do. While it may make the news over there for a little while it will soon be forgotten. Americans will vote on at the polls on things that directly affect them, wars on the other side of the world generally don't - at least not until the dover test becomes a factor.

[Screwdriver]

I honestly don't think we have even begun to see the worst of the fallout from this debacle.

I think they'll be less tnan you think, at least in a political sense for Biden.

Americans don't have the same interest in foreign policy as the british/europeans do. While it may make the news over there for a little while it will soon be forgotten. Americans will vote on at the polls on things that directly affect them, wars on the other side of the world generally don't - at least not until the dover test becomes a factor.

I was thinking more about what Al Qaeda are going to get up to now that the US have armed them to the teeth.

As for the politics, America looks weak with a feeble minded president and limp wristed left wing policies breaking up the USA from within. The media have begun to turn on him and we all know he's only in office due to the mainstream media and big tech turning a blind eye to the corruption and a frenzy of anti-Trump propaganda.

[Cousin Jack]

Americans don't have the same interest in foreign policy as the british/europeans do.

More than a few Americans have no idea about the world beyond the USA, and don't give a damn. Even senior managers of at least one US company did not realise that Europe still consisted of assorted countries with different laws, and that because they could do stuff in the USA they might not be allowed to do it in Europe.

[Bwana]

That got a genuine LOL from me.

Much as the Biden/Obama administration and their wholly pwnd mainstream media would like you to believe Trump is STILL to blame for everything, I have resisted the brainwash. I merely highlight the disastrous current administration, not for their personality traits but the factually disatrous results of their policies.

Again, this is not a discussion regarding the entire shit-show that the Obiden admin has become, just the massive cock up in Afghanistan. The planned withdrawal was predicated upon the Taliban not killing any more Americans (or the deal was off).

I shouldn't have to point out the catastrophic ineptitude of this long planned withdrawal other than the relatively new information regarding the sheer volume of state of the art weaponry which was left behind to fall into the hands of a rag bag of feudal so called Taliban. Billions and billions of $$$, enough to make the Taliban the best armed militia the world has ever seen.

Chances are these disparate groups of evil religious zealots will be busy arguing among themselves as Afghanistan hurtles backwards in time into the Dark Ages. If I was a local warlord, I wouldn't be handing my cache of small arms over to anyone and all the fantastically complex weapon systems would be heading straight off to eBay.

"Black Hawk helicopters, A-29 Super Tocano bombers, armoured Humvees, drones and night vision goggles are among the billions of dollars worth of US military weaponry that has reportedly been seized by the Taliban.

Images of Taliban fighters posing with M4 carbines and M16 rifles and opening crates of firearms, drones and night-vision goggles are circulating in the media, part of a propaganda victory as the militant group tries to establish their credentials as a legitimate governing force.

A US official told Reuters on Thursday that the Taliban were believed to have taken possession of more than 2,000 armoured vehicles and up to 40 aircraft, potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters, and ScanEagle military drones."

From : https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 06175.html

So while they might not be able to use these weapons (other than the impressive array of small arms) there will be a queue of dealers itching to get their hands on the super tech goodies for hard cash. Then of course you wonder, where might this breathtaking arsenal of state of the art weaponry actually end up? Pakistan? Russia? China? All of the above? Finally you think to yourself, "hmm, small world, suddenly develops a blip in the availability of weapons to strictly anti-western interests".

What's the worst that could happen?

Holy shit, there's rools on what can and cannot be discussed here? If that's true, why'd you bring up Trump's big beautiful wall? It "stands" as a monument to his presidency.
A prediction was made about that wall's structural integrity. It appears the prophets were correct.

Current and former officials say that while they are concerned about the Taliban having access to the helicopters, the aircraft require frequent maintenance and many are complicated to fly without extensive training.

"Ironically, the fact that our equipment breaks down so often is a life-saver here," a third official said.

Retired U.S. Army General Joseph Votel, who oversaw U.S. military operations in Afghanistan as head of U.S. Central Command from 2016 to 2019, said most of the high-end hardware captured by the Taliban, including the aircraft, was not equipped with sensitive U.S. technology.

"In some cases, some of these will be more like trophies," Votel said.

link

[Bwana]

I was thinking more about what Al Qaeda are going to get up to now that the US have armed them to the teeth.

About those US supplied arms, what administrations were responsible? Which one turbocharged the sales?

[Yambo]