revtothelimit - motorbike forum

FWIW this is how leathers and armour used to be sold. Now we have standards the gear has to meet.

For a while, any claim of 'protection' in ads = standards. Which many manufacturers didn't bother with.

The police rider mentioned above was wearing Hideout gear, which they are discussing at 8 a.m. tomorrow on Radio Essex.

Hidout Leather wrote:Essex police officer saved from serious injury due to Hideout PPE clothing and integral Helite airbag. Listen in to BBC Essex radio tomorrow morning at 8am when we have been invited to talk about how our clothing saved this officer and whether the future is airbags!

I know Hideout is happy with Helite based on people (racers, police riders, etc.) crash-testing it in real life. They stopped using their previous airbag supplier based on post-crash feedback. I realise it's hardly scientific evidence, but it's the closest we have to a "case-control study" comparing the effectiveness of different airbag systems.

Will be interesting to know how much is Hideout quality and how much is Helite airbag

Hot_Air wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:11 pm I know Hideout is happy with Helite based on people (racers, police riders, etc.) crash-testing it in real life. They stopped using their previous airbag supplier based on post-crash feedback.

Any idea who their previous supplier was*, and what the differences in outcomes were for riders?

I wonder whether the other was slightly more track biased?

* to save me going through wayback machine

Hot_Air wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:11 pm I realise it's hardly scientific evidence, but it's the closest we have to a "case-control study" comparing the effectiveness of different airbag systems.

I doubt they will have, but have they given any details of the differences?

Horse wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:07 pm Any idea who their previous supplier was*, and what the differences in outcomes were for riders?

I don't want to say who the previous supplier was, but I'll comment on what I've heard generally.

In the absence of extensive evidence (we may never see randomised controlled trials of motorcycle airbags), expert opinion is all we have currently. And there's no consensus – Kate Jennings has worked with several airbag systems and narrowed it down to Helite, while Brian Sansom reckons the Tech-Air system is best.

Kate at Hideout told me she wants airbags with high volume because a high volume of air is necessary to protect riders. She also looks for neck protection in an airbag. I like that Kate's straight talking and her advice is based on years of feedback from riders after they have crashed (a significant proportion of Hideout's work is repairing other brands' gear).

I gather Paul Varnsverry wears a Tech-Air 5, and I also like the Tech-Air's extensive coverage, including the shoulders. But the older Tech-Air Street and Race systems seem better, which two different Alpinestars representatives have told me. The Street and Race airbags have 12 sensors, compared to 6 in the (cheaper) Tech-Air 5. Guess which system has had numerous reports of false activation?

We need more independent research – something that appears lacking in motorcycle PPE – including airbag algorithms. (The EU's PIONEERS Project – likely a multi-million Euro research programme – was supposed to help. But it's yet to result in one peer-reviewed publication.)

So, I'll still wear an airbag but won't rely on it.

The way I see it is I'd rather suffer a cushioned blow than an uncushioned one. Still can't see me buying one at the current prices though? Not due new textiles yet anyway, maybe next time?

Taipan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:59 am The way I see it is I'd rather suffer a cushioned blow than an uncushioned one. Still can't see me buying one at the current prices though? Not due new textiles yet anyway, maybe next time?

Depends entirely on the degree of cushioning. And that's the info we simply don't have.

I guess it will take years for enough data to be collected for an independent study like Liz de Rome's look at body armour that found it didn't prevent broken bones, but actually reduced abrasion injury compared with clothing without armour.

My worst injury, whilst wearing leathers.
An off at about 3 mph on black ice. My mistake was to try and save the bike hitting the road. Tore my quads and other muscles in my left leg. This was what it looked like after just 12 hours. Was hobbling around for months-a break would have healed in 6 weeks.

When working, we had a few Diane's air bag jackets on test, and they would be set off by an accelerometer, not a lead. If set off, a six week turn around getting the bags replace. We then got Helites because they just needed a new air canister if deployed (and it wasn't otherwise damaged).

And do you know VAT is charged on air bag vests & jackets? Why?

Whysub wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:03 pm My mistake was to try and save the bike hitting the road

Ouch.

That's why I always told my DAS trainees "if you think the bike's going down, let it go... if you get let it down gently, do that but don't try to stop it going over."

We lost a few levers and indicator lenses and had a few bruises but the only serious injury on one of my courses was a lady who broke her leg trying to stop a 125 going over when she braked on the wet leaves when turning left at an awkward junction. Frustratingly, we'd stopped 50 metres back and I'd explained the exact problem of having to turn over the wet leaves and said "don't brake".

She was a nurse, and ignored the aches and pains for a week before walking into her own casualty unit when she went off-shift one evening - they sent her for an x-ray. She was due on her second test a couple of days later, and had to cancel because she was in plaster. She did pass second time and the examiner took her round the exact same corner which was still covered in wet leaves.

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:15 pm

Whysub wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:03 pm My mistake was to try and save the bike hitting the road

Ouch.

Ooh, very ouch ...

Saw something similar when a guy tried to hold up a K1100RT and failed. Similar 'stain' bruising on calf, knee and thigh (it was summer, he was wearing shorts, proudly came to show off the war wound).

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:15 pm That's why I always told my DAS trainees "if you think the bike's going down, let it go... if you get let it down gently, do that but don't try to stop it going over."

Oh. Really?

We used to tell Born Agains to lay their body under the bike, to protect it

Horse wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:21 pm

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:15 pm

Whysub wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:03 pm My mistake was to try and save the bike hitting the road

Ouch.

Ooh, very ouch ...

Saw something similar when a guy tried to hold up a K1100RT and failed. Similar 'stain' bruising on calf, knee and thigh (it was summer, he was wearing shorts, proudly came to show off the war wound).

The Spin Doctor wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:15 pm That's why I always told my DAS trainees "if you think the bike's going down, let it go... if you get let it down gently, do that but don't try to stop it going over."

Oh. Really?

We used to tell Born Agains to lay their body under the bike, to protect it

I think that was the first (and last) time I ever did the splits. Should have let the bike go, but it was only a few months old. It was totally undamaged, not even a scratch

You live and learn.

Whysub wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:13 pm
You live and learn.

Hopefully.

Count Steer wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:58 pm On the bright side, pricewise, the new Arc'teryx skiers avalanche airbag, the Litric, is over £2k!

The selling point is that it weighs under 3lb and it's supercapacitors/battery/pumps rather than gas bottles. Pumps up in 4 seconds.

Nah, get a bouldering mat. You can either wear it or leave on the ground ready for landing

We've been away for four days, and my wife has pointed out that the Helite vest was left on the bedroom floor, giving the cat four days of free rein to do what she liked with it

How about this airbag? TLDR: It’s for your head!

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new ... et-airbag/

@Horse If only you wore an airbag helmet for your crash

Hot_Air wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:25 pm How about this airbag? TLDR: It’s for your head!

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new ... et-airbag/

@Horse If only you wore an airbag helmet for your crash

Hmmm a few days back ...

Horse wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:58 pm

Hot_Air wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:59 pm

Horse wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:03 am

It appears airbag-equipped helmets are a genuine possibility:
https://www.rideapart.com/news/620204/a ... met-eicma/

Horse wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:52 pm Airoh are developing an airbag helmet. I might even have posted about it ...

Fark. I've gone full iriot

The news is that an established helmet manufacturer (Airoh) unveiled a prototype at the recent Milan motorcycle show. Considering airbag jackets, it was only a few years from prototypes on public display (with no shortage of scepticism) to products going on sale. So, perhaps we’ll see airbag-equipped helmets in due course?

https://www.visordown.com/news/product- ... cle-helmet

Hot_Air wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:18 am The news is that an established helmet manufacturer (Airoh) unveiled a prototype at the recent Milan motorcycle show.

Indeed. As per the link I posted on 08/11:

As you might guess from the timing, Airoh and Autoliv are bringing this world-first concept to EICMA 2022, which officially opens in Milan on November 8.

"According to data provided by Autoliv, the probability of serious injury due to a skull fracture is reduced by up to half"

Interestingly it doesn't protect the temples... which are - I believe - the most vulnerable parts of the skull to a direct impact. It's not only a weak spot, but there's a major artery running just beneath it. The temple area often gets flagged up as a problem area in the SHARP tests. And many fatal bike head injuries are due to brain shearing, not fractures.

"The design has been produced in collaboration with Swedish safety firm Autoliv"

Since Autoliv are actually suppliers of the products, I'd like to see independent assessments from science researchers.

Sceptical? Yes... until there's some independent verification. There's a lot of pro-airbag publicity but I haven't seen the IoM races getting any safer over the last decade!

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:39 pm Hmmm a few days back ...

And covered on Elevenses the following day