Energy bills

[Count Steer]

I was almost killed by an incorrectly serviced/fitted/whatever boiler...it had a recent safety certificate granted by the previous home owner (who was also a gas bod) too.

If I'd been up in the loft 1 or 2 minutes longer that'd have been me done. Got away with a bought of mild euphoria and a headache, but fuck me I didn't realise how easy it was to get this ---> <--- close to carking it from something so innocuous.

Fun times!

I spent a fair amount of time with our accident/fatalities chap who got involved in all the gas related fatalities in the region, went to court to deliver his expert opinion etc. I got him to do a presentation to one of the professional bodies I was on.

Most of it was just incredibly sad. Like the family that got carbon monoxided because some utter plum thought 'how hard can it be to install a gas, flame-effect fire?' To be fair, the pipework was fine. They installed it, in the fireplace, but the chimney had been capped, at floor level, in the flat above. They never even used a smoke match to check the flue worked.

Another reason for tenants to be grateful that appliances are checked etc.

Lots of cases involved kabooms but they, more often than not, involved theft of gas.

[Ant]

I won't make any mistake.

See, you haven't even spotted your mistake.
An expert with the right qualifications would have, but you don't even know what mistake you've made.

What mistake are you suggesting that I could make from working only on the water?

[Count Steer]

I won't make any mistake.

See, you haven't even spotted your mistake.
An expert with the right qualifications would have, but you don't even know what mistake you've made.

What mistake are you suggesting that I could make from working only on the water?

Strictly speaking, if you remove the functional cover, you aren't only working on the wet side.

[JackyJoll]

Show some restraint man, it's just a blip, a crisis would be running out of tonic, or black shoe polish or something.

People end up drinking Brasso!

[Ant]

See, you haven't even spotted your mistake.
An expert with the right qualifications would have, but you don't even know what mistake you've made.

What mistake are you suggesting that I could make from working only on the water?

Strictly speaking, if you remove the functional cover, you aren't only working on the wet side.

You filthy pevert

[Ant]

See, you haven't even spotted your mistake.
An expert with the right qualifications would have, but you don't even know what mistake you've made.

What mistake are you suggesting that I could make from working only on the water?

If you don't know what mistakes you could be making then you shouldn't be working on it.
You started off by removing a cover with the screws missing and you didn't notice them missing, not a good start.

Ok, well satisfies me enough to suggest that you're fine with there being no explosion from working only on the water.

[Ant]

I spent a fair amount of time with our accident/fatalities chap who got involved in all the gas related fatalities in the region, went to court to deliver his expert opinion etc. I got him to do a presentation to one of the professional bodies I was on.

I'm a Chartered Engineer and I used to be the Engineer that wrote all the technical bulletins for a multi-national and investigated failures, I've been called as an expert witness and had to submit technical reports that have been used in court.

In most of them the real crux of the problem was people like Ant, they thought they knew what they were doing but when held to account they stood there and admitted that they didn't see the warning signs, they didn't know what they thought they knew, they didn't have the right qualifications and they shouldn't have been doing what they were doing.

A problem with people like me? Non non!

I've asked you to tell me how it's going to explode, you've been unable to. So the burden of proof is with you if you want to go down that route....

[Count Steer]

What mistake are you suggesting that I could make from working only on the water?

If you don't know what mistakes you could be making then you shouldn't be working on it.
You started off by removing a cover with the screws missing and you didn't notice them missing, not a good start.

Ok, well satisfies me enough to suggest that you're fine with there being no explosion from working only on the water.

At the risk of repeating myself...

Strictly speaking, if you remove the functional cover, you aren't only working on the wet side.

[Ant]

If you don't know what mistakes you could be making then you shouldn't be working on it.
You started off by removing a cover with the screws missing and you didn't notice them missing, not a good start.

Ok, well satisfies me enough to suggest that you're fine with there being no explosion from working only on the water.

At the risk of repeating myself...

Strictly speaking, if you remove the functional cover, you aren't only working on the wet side.

Yes you are repeating yourself.

[Count Steer]

Ok, well satisfies me enough to suggest that you're fine with there being no explosion from working only on the water.

At the risk of repeating myself...

Strictly speaking, if you remove the functional cover, you aren't only working on the wet side.

Yes you are repeating yourself.

And you haven't explained how that fits with 'only working on the water'.

PS Explosions aren't the most common cause of death from gas appliances.

[Ant]

At the risk of repeating myself...

Strictly speaking, if you remove the functional cover, you aren't only working on the wet side.

Yes you are repeating yourself.

And you haven't explained how that fits with 'only working on the water'.

PS Explosions aren't the most common cause of death from gas appliances.

I have.

But no one has told me how working on water causes an explosion.

[Ant]

Ok, well satisfies me enough to suggest that you're fine with there being no explosion from working only on the water.

That's the mistake that you didn't know you'd made, you weren't working on just the water, when the cover was removed, with the screws missing, it forms part of the integrity barrier that only GasSafe technicians should operate inside. If you didn't even know that much, then you definitely shouldn't be in there.

I'd sack you and the HSE would at least issue a warning for it.

At least when I did it I knew what I was doing, you genuinely have no idea about the guidance, regulations or qualifications.

Ok, well imagine everything is fine and has pink feathers, we don't need to be showing off with the I'd sack you and HSE willy waving, that aside.....

....If you're an expert chartered engineer, this would be pretty easy for you to explain that how for example, say, touching a water valve causes a gas explosion?

I'll do a count in a moment of how many times I've asked. I'm pretty sure that once I've reached three times, the person I'm asking doesn't have a clue.

[Ant]

That's the mistake that you didn't know you'd made, you weren't working on just the water, when the cover was removed, with the screws missing, it forms part of the integrity barrier that only GasSafe technicians should operate inside. If you didn't even know that much, then you definitely shouldn't be in there.

I'd sack you and the HSE would at least issue a warning for it.

At least when I did it I knew what I was doing, you genuinely have no idea about the guidance, regulations or qualifications.

Ok, well imagine everything is fine and has pink feathers, we don't need to be showing off with the I'd sack you and HSE willy waving, that aside.....

....If you're an expert chartered engineer, this would be pretty easy for you to explain that how for example, say, touching a water valve causes a gas explosion?

I'll do a count in a moment of how many times I've asked. I'm pretty sure that once I've reached three times, the person I'm asking doesn't have a clue.

You didn't just touch the water, you touched part of the gas circuit, but because you're incompetent and shouldn't have even been in there you didn't realise you'd done it, you've already admitted that you wouldn't be able to see screws missing that cause a failure of the integrity of the unit, so it's entirely foreseeable.

You also knackered the heat exchanger whilst you were in there, the pressure built up and caused a burst joint.

I haven't touched any gas circuits....

I knackered a heat exchanger? How did I do that?

Built up pressure caused a burst joint? What kind of pressure is this? Do you know the British Standards for fittings and pressures they are tested to?

Did you ever hear of a thing called a pressure relief valve? Do you know at which pressure they operate?

Are you aware of what would be necessary to increase primary circuit pressure?

[Ant]

I haven't touched any gas circuits....

I knackered a heat exchanger? How did I do that?

Built up pressure caused a burst joint? What kind of pressure is this? Do you know the British Standards for fittings and pressures they are tested to?

Did you ever hear of a thing called a pressure relief valve? Do you know at which pressure they operate?

Are you aware of what would be necessary to increase primary circuit pressure?

This will all happen.
Prove it won't.

It will not happen. Are you asking me to prove that it won't because I've asked you to prove how I did it and can't answer me?

The burden of proof in this case would be with you.

Second time, third time means, yeah, you don't know, which is fine.

I knackered a heat exchanger? How did I do that?

Built up pressure caused a burst joint? What kind of pressure is this? Do you know the British Standards for fittings and pressures they are tested to?

Did you ever hear of a thing called a pressure relief valve? Do you know at which pressure they operate?

Are you aware of what would be necessary to increase primary circuit pressure?

[Ant]

Well, you know, you could just tell me how touching the water will cause an explosion?

[Count Steer]

Illegally fixes boilers, doesn't have the right qualifications, won't listen to skilled people that know more than him.
Wants me to tell him exactly how and when he'll do something dangerous...on a dangerous piece of equipment that he shouldn't be messing with.

Blimey, there is one born every minute.

He's on a roll. So far he knows better than a qualified, experienced CORGI/GasSafe person, you, a CEng with experience in failures/fatalities and me, CEng, MIGasE (retired ). Tried to twist the conversation away from functional and decorative covers, wants to talk about getting his fingers wet causing explosions (careful son, there's electricity in there) AND (I'm shocked ) accused me of being a troll.

In 6 months time he'll still be accusing us of running away from the argument that we 'lost'.

Pop another cap in his ass dear boy.

(Careful, he has a screwdriver and knows how to use it).

[Ant]

I'm looking to better, more experienced people than me, to tell me how the boiler goes bangy bang bang from someone doing something watery.

This couldn't have been made easier for you if you knew how.

Imagine that I'm not being an argumentative bugger and that I have a genuine inquisitive interest, if you will, chaps.

[Mr. Dazzle]

My boiler didn't go bangy bang but it did start leaking CO due to a water fault. Enough to generate easily fatal levels in our loft when it was on...the blokes meter read 5000ppm and then conked out IIRC something like 10ppm is dangerous.

Like I said, it had a new ticket too!

We did look at taking legal action but that was a dead end.

[DefTrap]

Waste of time. This is the internets, everybody knows that quoting qualifications and expertise counts for nowt.
I tried that on another thread, expertise is seen as not letting the inexperienced 'have a go at the answer', and I'm pretty sure I'm on ignore now.

[Ant]

Waste of time. This is the internets, everybody knows that quoting qualifications and expertise counts for nowt.
I tried that on another thread, expertise is seen as not letting the inexperienced 'have a go at the answer', and I'm pretty sure I'm on ignore now.

On the internet, you can have any qualification you wish.