It's the EU's fuckup so exactly who, other than the EU, do you believe deserves a "bashing"?
.
In this thread? Nobody really.
Who exactly are you bashing anyway? The EU as a whole? Just the Germans? Just the French? The governments or their citizens?
Seems a bit of a scattergun approach. It's almost as if your motive is hatred of furriners, but no it can't be that.
Anyway back to the, something more like, the plot ...
My missus was talking to some folk in the queue outside the docs. Monsieur#Uno aged over 70 had never had a vaccine in his life and wasn't about to start now. Monsieur#Zwei aged under 40 considered the vaccine testing to be compromised by hurried testing, wasn't going to fall for that one. Bloody government.
These are the sorts of people that have to be carefully managed into compliance.
Boris is lucky that the UK population have sleepwalked into future vaccine-related side effects.
Exactly. Nobody is at fault here. This pandemic is a clusterfuck of the first order and we all do the best we can to make the best of a bad job. Nobody is "right" nobody is "wrong", we can make those collective decisions on blame only with the benefit of hindsight. Meantime, those unfortunate enough to have to "do something NOW" simply have to take the best decision in a vastly complex situation while people are dropping like flies.
I love France and the French, Germans too, Italy come to think of it. Spain is fun. Dammit, the whole of Europe is full of interesting cultures, peoples and the continent of Europe is the best part of the world where our human society is at it's best. I fucking love Europe.
The EU however are a bunch of cunts hellbent on punishing the UK and they're using this pandemic and playing games with peoples lives to do it.
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
If this wasn't a proxy for arguing about Brexit we wouldn't be discussing the EU needing vaccines more than the UK, we'd be discussing the world needing vaccines more than the EU or the UK.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:22 am
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
If the EU had put orders into a UK company and then the UK put one in late and the government banned the EU shipments then the EU would have something to complain about.
If the EU thought vaccines were important they would have put in better orders earlier, they would also use the doses they have.
I really don't care about people calling it the UK version, polititians should know better but I haven't heard anything the member nations have said that I think is out of order, The EU on the other hand look like headless chickens trying to save face.
Hopefully this is the beginning of de-escalation of the Brussels EU's war of words as a precursor to it participating in a joint cooperative effort with the UK.
irie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:49 am
Hopefully this is the beginning of de-escalation of the Brussels EU's war of words as a precursor to it participating in a joint cooperative effort with the UK.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:22 am
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
An interesting if somewhat predictable spin. As AOC once said, facts are less important than moral truths. So while you can whinge about the morality of a nation wishing to serve its own citizens first, the fact is the EU are arguing about stuff the UK has already bought and paid for.
Boris took a risky decision due to the exponential rise of an out of control pandemic. The EU instead decided to wait and see. We are now reaping the reward for this politically agile solution whereas the rest of Europe are paying the price for having a cumbersome additional layer of bureaucracy.
You are also conflating the issue of supply with the "third wave" in the EU when as I have already pointed out, the EU also rubbished the AZ vaccine and scared their citizens away from accepting the jab. That is a much more plausible cause and effect especially since the EU masters also decided to suspend the use of AZ because some idiot doesn't understand statistical data relating to blood clotting.
Since the EU appear to have a limitless supply of idiots and failed politicians, this sorry saga is an indictment of the entire political project. Remainers won't see that of course, no matter what the evidence reveals.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:22 am
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
An interesting if somewhat predictable spin. As AOC once said, facts are less important than moral truths. So while you can whinge about the morality of a nation wishing to serve its own citizens first, the fact is the EU are arguing about stuff the UK has already bought and paid for.
Boris took a risky decision due to the exponential rise of an out of control pandemic. The EU instead decided to wait and see. We are now reaping the reward for this politically agile solution whereas the rest of Europe are paying the price for having a cumbersome additional layer of bureaucracy.
You are also conflating the issue of supply with the "third wave" in the EU when as I have already pointed out, the EU also rubbished the AZ vaccine and scared their citizens away from accepting the jab. That is a much more plausible cause and effect especially since the EU masters also decided to suspend the use of AZ because some idiot doesn't understand statistical data relating to blood clotting.
Since the EU appear to have a limitless supply of idiots and failed politicians, this sorry saga is an indictment of the entire political project. Remainers won't see that of course, no matter what the evidence reveals.
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
European countries have made all the claims about it not being safe and it was almost completely European countries that stopped using it.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
While having any sort of discussion with you is like trying to nail jelly to the wall.
I mean look at your last two posts. They are two totally different arguments.
One is regarding the nonsense argument the EU are making to secure UK supplies of vaccine.
You reply to that by ignoring that specific act of political chicanery and instead dismiss an entirely different game they are playing with rubbishing the AZ vaccine on spurious grounds.
I can see why it is confusing for you. There are just too many of these shenanigans for you to keep track of. You don't want to believe the EU are trying to punish the UK so you have an excuse for every individual act of sabotage when it is the sheer number of these microfucks which add up to reveal a concerted effort to damage the UK.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
While having any sort of discussion with you is like trying to nail jelly to the wall.
I mean look at your last two posts. They are two totally different arguments.
One is regarding the nonsense argument the EU are making to secure UK supplies of vaccine.
You reply to that by ignoring that specific act of political chicanery and instead dismiss an entirely different game they are playing with rubbishing the AZ vaccine on spurious grounds.
I can see why it is confusing for you. There are just too many of these shenanigans for you to keep track of. You don't want to believe the EU are trying to punish the UK so you have an excuse for every individual act of sabotage when it is the sheer number of these microfucks which add up to reveal a concerted effort to damage the UK.
Indeed, every time you're pulled up on one of your untruths and take a side-step. As I said, pointless.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:22 am
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
An interesting if somewhat predictable spin. As AOC once said, facts are less important than moral truths. So while you can whinge about the morality of a nation wishing to serve its own citizens first, the fact is the EU are arguing about stuff the UK has already bought and paid for.
Boris took a risky decision due to the exponential rise of an out of control pandemic. The EU instead decided to wait and see. We are now reaping the reward for this politically agile solution whereas the rest of Europe are paying the price for having a cumbersome additional layer of bureaucracy.
You are also conflating the issue of supply with the "third wave" in the EU when as I have already pointed out, the EU also rubbished the AZ vaccine and scared their citizens away from accepting the jab. That is a much more plausible cause and effect especially since the EU masters also decided to suspend the use of AZ because some idiot doesn't understand statistical data relating to blood clotting.
Since the EU appear to have a limitless supply of idiots and failed politicians, this sorry saga is an indictment of the entire political project. Remainers won't see that of course, no matter what the evidence reveals.
Nonsense.
As can be seen in the contract between AstraZeneca and the EU (previously show in this thread), AstraZeneca's contractual obligation is to exercise its "Best reasonable efforts" to supply the EU with vaccines. AstraZeneca can only be judged to be in breach of contract if it did not indeed exercise its "Best reasonable efforts". The fact that the Brussels EU has not taken legal action against AstraZeneca speaks for itself.
Nice try, but fail.
You should stick to walking your dogs in your Bulgarian countryside paradise just 70 miles from the Turkish border.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:22 am
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
An interesting if somewhat predictable spin. As AOC once said, facts are less important than moral truths. So while you can whinge about the morality of a nation wishing to serve its own citizens first, the fact is the EU are arguing about stuff the UK has already bought and paid for.
Boris took a risky decision due to the exponential rise of an out of control pandemic. The EU instead decided to wait and see. We are now reaping the reward for this politically agile solution whereas the rest of Europe are paying the price for having a cumbersome additional layer of bureaucracy.
You are also conflating the issue of supply with the "third wave" in the EU when as I have already pointed out, the EU also rubbished the AZ vaccine and scared their citizens away from accepting the jab. That is a much more plausible cause and effect especially since the EU masters also decided to suspend the use of AZ because some idiot doesn't understand statistical data relating to blood clotting.
Since the EU appear to have a limitless supply of idiots and failed politicians, this sorry saga is an indictment of the entire political project. Remainers won't see that of course, no matter what the evidence reveals.
Nonsense.
As can be seen in the contract between AstraZeneca and the EU (previously show in this thread), AstraZeneca's contractual obligation is to exercise its "Best reasonable efforts" to supply the EU with vaccines. AstraZeneca can only be judged to be in breach of contract if it did not indeed exercise its "Best reasonable efforts". The fact that the Brussels EU has not taken legal action against AstraZeneca speaks for itself.
Nice try, but fail.
You should stick to walking your dogs in your Bulgarian countryside paradise just 70 miles from the Turkish border.
You should spend more time posting something that's actually relevant to the quoted material and less time snooping into peoples' posts from years ago
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:22 am
According to Brussels, of the 43 million vaccines that have left the EU, 10 million went to the UK, while none went from the UK to the EU. That doesn't strike me as the EU punishing the UK. Most of the EU is seeing a large increase in cases while the UK is seeing a drop, having vaccinated a large proportion of the public. Why, when they are going through a third wave, would they continue to send vaccines to countries that are seeing a drop in cases and haven't sent any vaccines to the EU? Some people seem to think it fine for the UK to keep hold of the UK-manufactured vaccines until the contractual obligations are met, but a travesty for the EU to do the same.
An interesting if somewhat predictable spin. As AOC once said, facts are less important than moral truths. So while you can whinge about the morality of a nation wishing to serve its own citizens first, the fact is the EU are arguing about stuff the UK has already bought and paid for.
Boris took a risky decision due to the exponential rise of an out of control pandemic. The EU instead decided to wait and see. We are now reaping the reward for this politically agile solution whereas the rest of Europe are paying the price for having a cumbersome additional layer of bureaucracy.
You are also conflating the issue of supply with the "third wave" in the EU when as I have already pointed out, the EU also rubbished the AZ vaccine and scared their citizens away from accepting the jab. That is a much more plausible cause and effect especially since the EU masters also decided to suspend the use of AZ because some idiot doesn't understand statistical data relating to blood clotting.
Since the EU appear to have a limitless supply of idiots and failed politicians, this sorry saga is an indictment of the entire political project. Remainers won't see that of course, no matter what the evidence reveals.
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
European countries have made all the claims about it not being safe and it was almost completely European countries that stopped using it.
Like I said, individual countries rather than the EU itself.
Hoonercat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Some individual countries, both inside and outside the EU, paused the rollout of the AZ vaccine. Pointless trying to have a reasonable discussion with you when you come out with nonsense like this.
European countries have made all the claims about it not being safe and it was almost completely European countries that stopped using it.
Like I said, individual countries rather than the EU itself.
Also claims about effectiveness: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... id19/91658
AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine was not protective against mild-to-moderate disease from either the so-called South African variant (B.1.351) or the wild type virus, an interim analysis of phase Ib/II data found. ... reported Shabir Madhi, PhD, of University of the Witwatersrand in Gauteng, South Africa
Mussels wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:35 pm
European countries have made all the claims about it not being safe and it was almost completely European countries that stopped using it.
Like I said, individual countries rather than the EU itself.
Also claims about effectiveness: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectious ... id19/91658
AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine was not protective against mild-to-moderate disease from either the so-called South African variant (B.1.351) or the wild type virus, an interim analysis of phase Ib/II data found. ... reported Shabir Madhi, PhD, of University of the Witwatersrand in Gauteng, South Africa
