revtothelimit - motorbike forum

slowsider wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:17 am
I'd guess that the revolution in personal transport has come about in your lifetime. Even a young lad like me can remember when many people couldn't afford a car - d/a sidecars anyone - much less two. The road-and-car building lobby triumphed over rail, but you still couldn't operate cities without it. If the democracy offers efficient public transport then the little people will use it. It won't fulfill everyone's needs everywhere, but neither does what we have, if you take environmental considerations into account.

You are right, the revolution has happened in my lifetime. And yes, we used to manage mainly on public transport. Return to those days and it will be inconvenient, but possible, BUT

The rail lines have gone.
The bus routes have gone

The village I lived in as a teenager had a rail branch line. Not only has that closed but the bridges etc have been torn down, and parts of the track bed have been built over. The terminal station is now an industrial estate. Good luck with re-opening that. The village was also on two bus routes, with the main route having one bus every hour in each direction. Buses ran into a big bus station, with interconnexion to other routes and places. At the moment the bus service is two days per week, with one bus per day in each direction. The bus station is long gone.

Rebuild that infrastructure and yes, reluctantly, people will accept that public transport is the way to go, but I see absolutely zero evidence that this is happening or even being planned.

The problem is that all the 'solutions' are based on cities. Try living in the country and the 'solutions' become laughable.

Build the infrastructure, then take away cars. Try doing it the other way around a a new Farage will arise.

I don't think public transport will ever be the answer, it's too inlefixible and expensive as proven during covid as people aren't using it but it still needs to be paid for.
The revolution will be cheap taxis, self driving ones.

Potter wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:52 am
The London-centric government wants everyone to walk, bicycle, use public transport, or go out and buy a £60k EV.

Seriously?

Just about all public transport is subsidised to some extent but the motorist is a huge cash cow for the government. You think they want to give up that income?

There'll only be a delay in getting rid of cars so that government can work out how to get the in ome some other way.

Mussels wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 am I don't think public transport will ever be the answer, it's too inlefixible and expensive as proven during covid as people aren't using it but it still needs to be paid for.
The revolution will be cheap taxis, self driving ones.

Fine, that might work. But it ain't here yet. Uber's might be two a penny in London, but they are like hen's teeth in the West Country.

Potter wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:08 pm

Yambo wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:00 pm

Potter wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:52 am
The London-centric government wants everyone to walk, bicycle, use public transport, or go out and buy a £60k EV.

Seriously?

Just about all public transport is subsidised to some extent but the motorist is a huge cash cow for the government. You think they want to give up that income?

There'll only be a delay in getting rid of cars so that government can work out how to get the in ome some other way.

I don't do a lot of motoring in the UK but if the UK government really values motorists then they have a poor way of showing it.

The UK govt doesn't 'value' motorists..... It just sees them as an easier way to generate revenue while giving 'full-freedom of movement of the workers' than public transport (outside of cities, where they have to be 'seen to be doing something about air-quality').

Never believe that any elected official is thinking about anything more than their re-election chances.

Mussels wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 am I don't think public transport will ever be the answer, it's too inlefixible and expensive as proven during covid as people aren't using it but it still needs to be paid for.
The revolution will be cheap taxis, self driving ones.

so, public transport. but small ones.

Mussels wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 am The revolution will be cheap taxis, self driving ones.

I can’t see it. There’s no fundamental difference in that model to the one we currently have. People will use a taxi in big cities as they do now and when there’s no alternative. But people like their own space; their own car gives them that.

It’s not going anywhere in a hurry.

wheelnut wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:59 pm

Mussels wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 am The revolution will be cheap taxis, self driving ones.

I can’t see it. There’s no fundamental difference in that model to the one we currently have. People will use a taxi in big cities as they do now and when there’s no alternative. But people like their own space; their own car gives them that.

It’s not going anywhere in a hurry.

It's not just their own personal space, taxis in the country are expensive, take a long time to arrive, and are often not available when you want them. Not to mention often being unable to find where you are, never mind your destination.

It's not just the technology that needs to change, it is the whole economic model.

Cousin Jack wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:17 pm

wheelnut wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:59 pm

Mussels wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:56 am The revolution will be cheap taxis, self driving ones.

I can’t see it. There’s no fundamental difference in that model to the one we currently have. People will use a taxi in big cities as they do now and when there’s no alternative. But people like their own space; their own car gives them that.

It’s not going anywhere in a hurry.

It's not just their own personal space, taxis in the country are expensive, take a long time to arrive, and are often not available when you want them. Not to mention often being unable to find where you are, never mind your destination.

It's not just the technology that needs to change, it is the whole economic model.

If taxis were cheaper, more available and I didn't have to make small talk with a driver then I'd use them far more often. If I can use them to travel long distances, swapping cars instead of waiting for them to recharge then I may well not bother having my own car.

In our village we have 1 taxi guy. To get to Newbury which is our closest town is £35-40

weeksy wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:01 pm In our village we have 1 taxi guy. To get to Newbury which is our closest town is £35-40

Taxis here (Newbury) are feckin expensive. I was in Liverpool recently and it was half the price of here!

No.

Mussels wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:54 pm
If taxis were cheaper, more available and I didn't have to make small talk with a driver then I'd use them far more often. If I can use them to travel long distances, swapping cars instead of waiting for them to recharge then I may well not bother having my own car.

What makes you think they will be cheaper? It’s also going have the effect of doubling the traffic on the road with loads of unnecessary journeys.

There's a UK shortage of drivers.

Most of them got other jobs during lock down and now none of them want to work nights.

I had to get a lift home from the curry house the other night with the delivery driver cos it was a two hour wait for a joe baksi.

Brother in law was a taxi driver. Lockdown one killed his business almost instantly. Sold up and now the transport manager for brother in law two who has a builders business. Sisters mates husband is down to part time Still got a couple of years to go till retirement but cab still needs paid for so struggling on. He is struggling to find anyone who wants to do nights or was as not spoken to him for a good six month.

weeksy wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:01 pm In our village we have 1 taxi guy. To get to Newbury which is our closest town is £35-40

Horse wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:04 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:01 pm In our village we have 1 taxi guy. To get to Newbury which is our closest town is £35-40

Taxis here (Newbury) are feckin expensive. I was in Liverpool recently and it was half the price of here!

One of the problems with taxis in rural areas (or small towns) is that no where is close. If where you want to go isn't too far from you, there's a good chance that the taxi has to come a long way. So, it's never going to be cheap. And never as close to city prices!!

Electric probably isn't going to help that, as how many EV charging points will they put in rural areas??

The advent of cheap transport enabled people to move to the countryside. As cheap transport goes people will move back to the city if they can’t afford to live in the countryside. It’ll be crap for those as this transition takes place but it’ll happen. The days of cheap personal transport are on the way out. 100 years from now the majority will live in big cities with most of what’s needed not needing a vehicle. If you do it’ll be an automated vehicle you don’t own. We’re at the beginning of all this so will feel the pain

Couchy wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:12 pm The advent of cheap transport enabled people to move to the countryside. As cheap transport goes people will move back to the city if they can’t afford to live in the countryside. It’ll be crap for those as this transition takes place but it’ll happen. The days of cheap personal transport are on the way out. 100 years from now the majority will live in big cities with most of what’s needed not needing a vehicle. If you do it’ll be an automated vehicle you don’t own. We’re at the beginning of all this so will feel the pain

How silly of me. All those fishermen and farmers and the like should move back to the big cities. Are they going to build lots of new houses in that London? They could pack them in back to back, or build tenements.
Oops, where is the food coming from?

I dunno why you'd assume EVs are always gonna be more expensive than ICE cars. They're more expensive right now for sure, but the price has already dropped massively inside one or two model cycles.

Ditto on the charging availability thing. How many farriers or knackers yards are there around you way?

In 100 years time? Seems like a bit it an extrapolation!