Energy bills

[Bowman]

So the big white cover to get to the electrics and the expansion vessel is the seal? So you're saying that the gas and flue are all mixed in with the electrics? Interesting. Not seen that in any boiler I have been inside.

There will be a separate combustion chamber and flue, etc, but the big white cover gives you access to the electrics, ignition unit, and sometimes the fan. If, for example, you mess about and bypass the fan safeties you could cause a big problem, so that's why you'll get in trouble taking the case off if you don't have the right ticket.

Exactly - that's how it's always been, completely separately sealed.

No it isn't. Trust me on this.

[Ant]

Yes. That big white cover on a lot of boilers is the case seal. Ideal, Worcester and Vailant are all like this. Not all boilers are the same. If your gonna mess with boilers you really should be aware of this.

So the big white cover to get to the electrics and the expansion vessel is the seal? So you're saying that the gas and flue are all mixed in with the electrics? Interesting. Not seen that in any boiler I have been inside.

Yes on the majority of new boilers it's the seal. Yes the gas and flue are in the same compartment as the electrics. There's no reason for them not to be. And on condensing boilers even ones with a separate combustion chamber they are still "gas" rated. An example would be if the hose was disturbed on the inlet of the condensate trap then products of combustion would be straight into the room.

Well I've just downloaded an installation PDF for a Vailant boiler, the Ecotech Plus Combi.

No surprises, the gas/burner chamber is separately sealed, as I'd expect to find as I've been saying.

You say 'and' on condensing boilers. Haven't they all been condensing for quite some time?

[Bowman]

Oh ffs, I've been running a heating company for 20yrs, and was a bg engineer before that. Download the pdf for an ideal logic, or a worcester greenstar cdi. And suprise suprise you'll be able to see what I'm talking about.

[Ant]

Oh ffs, I've been running a heating company for 20yrs, and was a bg engineer before that.

That comes as no surprise

Download the pdf for an ideal logic, or a worcester greenstar cdi. And suprise suprise you'll be able to see what I'm talking about.

You told me Vailant, so I looked at one of those. Ok I'll look at one of the others then.

[Ant]

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/media ... tsheet.pdf

Basically if it's a screwed on case, then you can't remove it yourself.
If it's a hinged inspection decorative cover, then you can.

Screwed on ones can't be removed? But I have a screwdriver

[Ant]

Ok, just downloaded a PDF for the Greenstar CDI - also separately sealed, as expected to find.

Next one to look up?

[Bowman]

Oh ffs, I've been running a heating company for 20yrs, and was a bg engineer before that.

That comes as no surprise

Download the pdf for an ideal logic, or a worcester greenstar cdi. And suprise suprise you'll be able to see what I'm talking about.

You told me Vailant, so I looked at one of those. Ok I'll look at one of the others then.

Why the dig at bg?
To be honest when you stoop to that level then you sound like a special case yourself with an over inflated opinion of yourself.
I've tried to be reasonable but it just seems to make you more and more overexcited. You obviously have some sort of issues with gas men.

[Ant]

Screwed on ones can't be removed? But I have a screwdriver

I'm fairly sure that me and the actual GasSafe bloke giving you advice are right, but you can crack on and do whatever you feel is best.
But if you're going to break the law then at least know you're doing it, unconscious incompetence is what kills people, at least know when you're doing it.

You know what, this conversation is making me think sod it, I'll fit my own new boiler when we move house if we ever need one. If the "Gas Safe" man doesn't understand that the combustion chamber is completely sealed separately, then he's not getting a penny from me.

I remember meeting a bloke (true story seriously) who was confused as hell at being told the fuse in the fused connection to the boiler must be 3 amps max after some PAT testing (PAT testing, there's another scam) bloke told him on a course he was on, said to him that 3A fuses should be fitted to equipment consuming less than 500 watts. He didn't understand this as he's been fitting them to 15kw plus boilers

[Ant]

Oh ffs, I've been running a heating company for 20yrs, and was a bg engineer before that.

That comes as no surprise

Download the pdf for an ideal logic, or a worcester greenstar cdi. And suprise suprise you'll be able to see what I'm talking about.

You told me Vailant, so I looked at one of those. Ok I'll look at one of the others then.

Why the dig at bg?
To be honest when you stoop to that level then you sound like a special case yourself with an over inflated opinion of yourself.
I've tried to be reasonable but it just seems to make you more and more overexcited. You obviously have some sort of issues with gas men.

Ok, sorry if I've upset you. Just you gave me two boilers to look up, so I did. Both returned information stating what I said, which you said wasn't the case, but the data says it is the case. I've tried to be reasonable also.

Oh and it's gas people, not gas men - gender neutral trades now.

[Bowman]

Screwed on ones can't be removed? But I have a screwdriver

I'm fairly sure that me and the actual GasSafe bloke giving you advice are right, but you can crack on and do whatever you feel is best.
But if you're going to break the law then at least know you're doing it, unconscious incompetence is what kills people, at least know when you're doing it.

You know what, this conversation is making me think sod it, I'll fit my own new boiler when we move house if we ever need one. If the "Gas Safe" man doesn't understand that the combustion chamber is completely sealed separately, then he's not getting a penny from me.

I remember meeting a bloke (true story seriously) who was confused as hell at being told the fuse in the fused connection to the boiler must be 3 amps max after some PAT testing (PAT testing, there's another scam) bloke told him on a course he was on, said to him that 3A fuses should be fitted to equipment consuming less than 500 watts. He didn't understand this as he's been fitting them to 15kw plus boilers

You have absolutely no idea. I'm trying to put it in simple terms. When you remove the case on the worcester you're breaking the seal on the combustion chamber. There's a big rubber seal around the combustion chamber that the case sits against. If you can't even see that on a simple diagram then why are you even considering that you know enough to work inside a boiler.

[Bowman]

That comes as no surprise



You told me Vailant, so I looked at one of those. Ok I'll look at one of the others then.

Why the dig at bg?
To be honest when you stoop to that level then you sound like a special case yourself with an over inflated opinion of yourself.
I've tried to be reasonable but it just seems to make you more and more overexcited. You obviously have some sort of issues with gas men.

Ok, sorry if I've upset you. Just you gave me two boilers to look up, so I did. Both returned information stating what I said, which you said wasn't the case, but the data says it is the case. I've tried to be reasonable also.

Oh and it's gas people, not gas men - gender neutral trades now.

You really haven't upset me. I deal with guys like you regularly. I just get exasperated and just have a chuckle about it in the van afterwards.
You're correcting me on Gas men? Is that how low you're gonna go?

[Count Steer]

I've only just realised, it's a combi, so that'll be why it's so powerful, for water heating. I have a cylinder, so can get away with a less powerful boiler.

The Greenstar 8000 that's been specced is rated at 35kW max output for the CH side. The hot water max output will be 40-50kW depending on the exact model.

They produce different models from 30 to 50kw. Usually they're named by the hot water output. The 40kw hot water output model is called the 8000 40kw and so on. They're all 35 kW to the heating though which is pretty high and perfect for the bigger house.

Yes. Given the size of the place, the bathrooms and the info provided, I assumed it was something like these. https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plum ... chpn=35_kw

[Count Steer]

Oh ffs, I've been running a heating company for 20yrs, and was a bg engineer before that.

That comes as no surprise

Download the pdf for an ideal logic, or a worcester greenstar cdi. And suprise suprise you'll be able to see what I'm talking about.

You told me Vailant, so I looked at one of those. Ok I'll look at one of the others then.

Why the dig at bg?
To be honest when you stoop to that level then you sound like a special case yourself with an over inflated opinion of yourself.
I've tried to be reasonable but it just seems to make you more and more overexcited. You obviously have some sort of issues with gas men.

Ant just has 'issues'.

[Ant]

Why the dig at bg?
To be honest when you stoop to that level then you sound like a special case yourself with an over inflated opinion of yourself.
I've tried to be reasonable but it just seems to make you more and more overexcited. You obviously have some sort of issues with gas men.

Ok, sorry if I've upset you. Just you gave me two boilers to look up, so I did. Both returned information stating what I said, which you said wasn't the case, but the data says it is the case. I've tried to be reasonable also.

Oh and it's gas people, not gas men - gender neutral trades now.

You really haven't upset me. I deal with guys like you regularly. I just get exasperated and just have a chuckle about it in the van afterwards.
You're correcting me on Gas men? Is that how low you're gonna go?

What's a guy like me? Someone who showed you that what you said was wrong?

[Bowman]

Ok, sorry if I've upset you. Just you gave me two boilers to look up, so I did. Both returned information stating what I said, which you said wasn't the case, but the data says it is the case. I've tried to be reasonable also.

Oh and it's gas people, not gas men - gender neutral trades now.

You really haven't upset me. I deal with guys like you regularly. I just get exasperated and just have a chuckle about it in the van afterwards.
You're correcting me on Gas men? Is that how low you're gonna go?

What's a guy like me? Someone who showed you that what you said was wrong?

You still have no idea what you're talking about. Go and have another look at the diagrams and try and comprehend them. The case that you remove forms part of the inner combustion chamber.

[Ant]

You really haven't upset me. I deal with guys like you regularly. I just get exasperated and just have a chuckle about it in the van afterwards.
You're correcting me on Gas men? Is that how low you're gonna go?

What's a guy like me? Someone who showed you that what you said was wrong?

You still have no idea what you're talking about. Go and have another look at the diagrams and try and comprehend them. The case that you remove forms part of the inner combustion chamber.

I did and google images. Both showed the combustion chamber as sealed with the main cosmetic cover off. I said that was the case (pardon the pun) for the Vailant which you suggested I look at, you then said look at a Greenstar, so I did that also.

[Count Steer]

What's a guy like me? Someone who showed you that what you said was wrong?

You still have no idea what you're talking about. Go and have another look at the diagrams and try and comprehend them. The case that you remove forms part of the inner combustion chamber.

I did and google images. Both showed the combustion chamber as sealed with the main cosmetic cover off. I said that was the case (pardon the pun) for the Vailant which you suggested I look at, you then said look at a Greenstar, so I did that also.

Are you saying that the 'functional' covers are actually 'decorative' only, so they only say they're functional but aren't really?

[Ant]

You still have no idea what you're talking about. Go and have another look at the diagrams and try and comprehend them. The case that you remove forms part of the inner combustion chamber.

I did and google images. Both showed the combustion chamber as sealed with the main cosmetic cover off. I said that was the case (pardon the pun) for the Vailant which you suggested I look at, you then said look at a Greenstar, so I did that also.

Are you saying that the 'functional' covers are actually 'decorative' only, so they only say they're functional but aren't really?

They function as a cover, to cover the gubbins and electrical connections of course.

[Kneerly Down]

And there's the nub of it. Even taking the case off a lot of balanced flued boilers is classed as working on the gas side. The case forms an important part of the sealing to the room andvis classed as gas work.
No-one is doubting anyone's technical ability but if something happens then the hse and insurance companies will not be impressed.

From my experience pretty much all that goes wrong with the water side, other than the expansion vessel, is accessible with the drop down for the control panel taken off rather than having to do anything with the case around the burner chamber, let alone the chamber itself.
Fiddly, but accessible.
It does annoy me how crap they seem to make the water pumps on gas combi boilers but then they are built to a price and the maxim of "you'd be better off just getting a new boiler installed"

[Count Steer]

I did and google images. Both showed the combustion chamber as sealed with the main cosmetic cover off. I said that was the case (pardon the pun) for the Vailant which you suggested I look at, you then said look at a Greenstar, so I did that also.

Are you saying that the 'functional' covers are actually 'decorative' only, so they only say they're functional but aren't really?

They function as a cover, to cover the gubbins and electrical connections of course.

So this (as quoted ^^^ by Potter) is simply not true in your view....

Integral casing: Many appliances have cases, which in addition to being decorative, function as a part of the combustion circuit and form an important seal around the gas carrying components e.g. burner, combustion chamber, gas valve etc. If removing the case involves undoing a number of screws, this normally means it is a functional case and it should not be removed by the consumer or a person who is not Gas Safe registered.