Rattle guns

[Trogladyte]

I've never used one, but am going to, as there are applications where I need one - notably removing and re-fitting clutch centre nuts, where you haven't got the holding tool.

When I was racing with the boy, I used a holding tool and a breaker bar to get them off, and a torque wrench to get them back on. But I struggled once or twice and the mechanics off one of the teams helped me out.

They used a rattle gun to whiz them of, and back on, and made short work of it.

My question is, if you are using them like this, how do you know you are using enough torque. These nuts had to be tight. Like really tight! But on some applications you'd be in danger of damaging parts if you apply brutal torque.

So how do you know what's tight enough, with these things?

[Yorick]

I noticed watching the MotoGP that all teams use an old fashioned torque wrench.

Surely a good rattle gun will do it?

[MrLongbeard]

Only ever use them to remove nuts / bolts, if the application requires torquing back up then use a torque wrench

[Yorick]

Only ever use them to remove nuts / bolts, if the application requires torquing back up then use a torque wrench

F1 use them???

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I used to use one when I worked in a lawn mower factory 30 odd years ago for putting the blades on rotary mowers, you pretty soon got a feel for how tight to use them and then finish off with a torque wrench.

[Nidge]

Only ever use them to remove nuts / bolts, if the application requires torquing back up then use a torque wrench

F1 use them???

Those guns have a programable torque sensor and cost significantly more that I suspect Trog wants to pay- even the version available to mere mortals from Demon Tweeks is £6k....

[MrLongbeard]

Only ever use them to remove nuts / bolts, if the application requires torquing back up then use a torque wrench

F1 use them???

F1 use a specific gun set designed for a specific task at a specific torque and cost ten of thousands of pounds per gun.
Halfords special windy guns they ain't.

[Skub]

Only ever use them to remove nuts / bolts, if the application requires torquing back up then use a torque wrench

Same here. I've a DeWalt thingy for loosening.

Get the holding tool,Trog and torque it up by hand.

[Mussels]

I'm not sure my home compressor driven one would have the power to do them up with confidence. It does get them off but can take it's time so I wouldn't trust it for tightening let alone to a specific torque.

[Yorick]

Only ever use them to remove nuts / bolts, if the application requires torquing back up then use a torque wrench

F1 use them???

Those guns have a programable torque sensor and cost significantly more that I suspect Trog wants to pay- even the version available to mere mortals from Demon Tweeks is £6k....

I was badly relating it to my question on Motogp use

[Mr. Dazzle]

F1 use 'em almost entirely for the speed, which just isn't a factor a in a pit-stop free MotoGP race. You're not gonna fork out thousands for fancy windy guns when a torque wrench at 1/10th or 1/100th the cost works pretty much as just as well.

I say "almost entirely" 'cause I imagine F1 wheels are done up a fair bit tighter than MotoGP. It's gonna be ~500Nm, which is possible to undo by hand with a big bar but windy guns make it easier.

Plus the fact F1 wheels have captive nuts (i.e. the nut comes off with the wheel) and special hubs which still retain the wheel a bit if the nut isn't there, whereas MotoGP doesn't (I think?) - so the gun/socket combo is highly non-standard to make all that work.

[David]

I have a Lidl battery gun which is far better than I expected.

[cheb]

Count the duggas, one for tight, two for very tight, three for effing tight and four for ever.

[Demannu]

Once the ft-lb goes over 50, it's all academic really!
Don't clutch centre nuts have a lock on them anyhooo!
Front sprocket nuts are my favourite things for Mr windy

[Felix]

Recently did an engine swap in one of my vans and having even the cheap Chinese copy guns made the job a breeze.

[Bigyin]

The rear wheel nut on the single sided Ducati is set to 230nm by the factory. To get that off i have a 2 foot breaker bar and a 5 foot scaffold pole over it .... to do it up i pull it F tight as it hasnt fallen off yet.

The Ducati forums are chock full of "which rattle gun is the best" threads as its the easiest way to shift the rear wheelnut. Funners has a DeWalt one he thinks is brilliant and spins it off in seconds with no grief. Most of the other recommendations are for Milwaukee or Clarks

To remove the front sprocket nut of the 600 fazer i couldnt get in to get leverage with the sockets i had and didnt have the big breaker bar to hand as it was on the lift at the training base so borrowed my eldest stepsons Dewalt Impact driver and it spun it off right away

[Mr. Dazzle]

Once the ft-lb goes over 50, it's all academic really!

I know it's tongue in cheek, but I should point out this usually isn't true

The Ducati wheel as above is a good case in point. It's not done up mega tight to stop it undoing, it's done up mega tight 'cause that's how much clamp force you need. Bolts typically work by squashing the two surfaces together, it should be friction driving the load from the hub into the wheel. I.e. the bolt should be purely in tension. Since said Ducati only has one bolt you need to do it up naffing tight to get sufficient clamp force. Incidentally that's part of the reason cars/VFRs have multiple wheel bolts, you can get the required clamp with more bolts done up looser. It's also cheaper and has redundancy.

Generally if someone is speccing a big torque it's for good reason.

However that said, I do agree it is often pretty academic and I wouldn't worry about the difference between 30, 40 and 50Nm in a lot of contexts either. Not every context though

[Taff]

I say "almost entirely" 'cause I imagine F1 wheels are done up a fair bit tighter than MotoGP. It's gonna be ~500Nm, which is possible to undo by hand with a big bar but windy guns make it easier.

The lynx helicopter tail rotor hub nut is torqued to 440Nm, to get that off was a 4 man job. 2 people hanging off 2 trail rotor blades to stop them turning, 1 to hold the socket in place and one fat bloke (usually me) hanging off the 5 ft TQ wrench with full body weight.

It's a bastard of a job

[Mr. Dazzle]

I've mentioned it before, but...

If you buy a modern Porsche with centre lock wheels (i.e. one nut) you get a special socket that goes in a little cubby under the bonnet. That's great and all, it means you've always got the special tool with you. What's less great is the fact that the wheels are done up to 450Nm, so no bugger is gonna be using that socket at the side of the road anyway

[Mussels]

I've mentioned it before, but...

If you buy a modern Porsche with centre lock wheels (i.e. one nut) you get a special socket that goes in a little cubby under the bonnet. That's great and all, it means you've always got the special tool with you. What's less great is the fact that the wheels are done up to 450Nm, so no bugger is gonna be using that socket at the side of the road anyway

Especially when they find the last tyre fitter forgot to put it back.