Afghanistan

[Yorick]

Afghanistan has problems for donkeys years, but suddenly Biden is to blame for everything.

Wow.

I'm confused.

Why do you think Biden is to blame for everything?

Was sarcasm. Up there folk were blaming Biden or whichever politicians they hate most.

[Yambo]

Maybe the west should have trained a female Afghan army.

Those that were trained are now going into hiding

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ear-lives/

Failure to look after those that help British forces (interpreters etc) could set the military up for failure in the next conflict.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... =DM1479223

[Yambo]

Afghanistan has problems for donkeys years, but suddenly Biden is to blame for everything.

Wow.

I'm confused.

Why do you think Biden is to blame for everything?

Was sarcasm. Up there folk were blaming Biden or whichever politicians they hate most.

Only 3 people have mentioned Biden

I don't think any of them have blamed Biden for everything but I can understand why you think that may be the case.

Personally (I'm one of the 3 btw), I'd put the blame on Bush and Bliar and every US president and UK Prime Minister over the past 20 years for failing to come up with a proper exit strategy while knowing full well we couldn't stay there for ever. The troops are leaving on Biden and Johnson's watch. That they are doing so without a proper exit strategy and while underestimating the Taliban and over estimating the ANA's capabilities, morale or desire to defend their homeland completely is worthy of some blame but nowhere near as much blame as the intelligence services and all the other 'advisors' that they have for not foreseeing this debacle.

I'm happy to blame all of the above for the deaths of all the servicemen that have died or received life changing injuries - for fuck all.

[irie]

I'm confused.

Why do you think Biden is to blame for everything?

Was sarcasm. Up there folk were blaming Biden or whichever politicians they hate most.

Only 3 people have mentioned Biden

I don't think any of them have blamed Biden for everything but I can understand why you think that may be the case.

Personally (I'm one of the 3 btw), I'd put the blame on Bush and Bliar and every US president and UK Prime Minister over the past 20 years for failing to come up with a proper exit strategy while knowing full well we couldn't stay there for ever. The troops are leaving on Biden and Johnson's watch. That they are doing so without a proper exit strategy and while underestimating the Taliban and over estimating the ANA's capabilities, morale or desire to defend their homeland completely is worthy of some blame but nowhere near as much blame as the intelligence services and all the other 'advisors' that they have for not foreseeing this debacle.

I'm happy to blame all of the above for the deaths of all the servicemen that have died or received life changing injuries - for fuck all.

This debacle, which has been decades in the making, was foreseeable from the moment the Russians left Afghanistan in ~1989 and the Americans entered Afghanistan in ~2001.

As a result of foreign aid being cut off the Taliban will probably have no alternative but to flood the West with heroin in order to finance themselves.

Plus ça change.

[Horse]

Afghanistan has problems for donkeys years, but suddenly Biden is to blame for everything.

Wow.

I'm confused.

Why do you think Biden is to blame for everything?

Was sarcasm. Up there folk were blaming Biden or whichever politicians they hate most.

Some reliable (?) pundits are critical of Biden:

www.independent.co.uk/news/trump-biden- ... html%3famp

President Joe Biden should resign “in disgrace” over the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and throwing the country into chaos as the Taliban grabbed power, Donald Trump said.

[Cousin Jack]

Some reliable (?) pundits are critical of Biden:

www.independent.co.uk/news/trump-biden- ... html%3famp

President Joe Biden should resign “in disgrace” over the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and throwing the country into chaos as the Taliban grabbed power, Donald Trump said.

It was always going to happen, unless the 'troop withdrawal' was phased in over about 50 - 100 years. Most Afghans DGAS about the Afghan government, and the Afghan Army/Police seem to have been a bad joke.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm confused.

Why do you think Biden is to blame for everything?

Was sarcasm. Up there folk were blaming Biden or whichever politicians they hate most.

Some reliable (?) pundits are critical of Biden:

www.independent.co.uk/news/trump-biden- ... html%3famp

President Joe Biden should resign “in disgrace” over the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and throwing the country into chaos as the Taliban grabbed power, Donald Trump said.

Linked at the bottom of that same article

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... XP4rW7nvhN

Lolz

Whichever president was actually in power when they finally actually left was gonna get the shitty stick.

A web page on the site of the Republican National Committee detailing former President Donald Trump’s work on issues related to terrorism and the Middle East disappeared over the weekend as Taliban militants took control of Kabul and toppled Afghanistan’s government.

The page, which returned a 404 error as of Monday but could still be seen on archive sites, dealt with a number of issues including the Trump administration’s negotiations with the Taliban as well as the normalisation of relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates

[Bwana]

Well, that didn’t take long.

After initially kicking out the Taliban one of the long term reasons for British and other forces to stay was to train and support the Afghan military and police.

I think it can be safely said that, quite clearly, that part of twenty years of our mission in Afghanistan has been a complete, utter and abject failure.

There's only one question left to be answered regarding our 20 year presence in Afghanistan.

Twenty years, for what?

Twenty years for what?

So military contractors could fill their pockets with tax payer's money. Who gives a flying fuck if soldiers and citizens die if there's some cash to be made?

Bush should have never got us in there. Bush should have had an early exit strategy and clear cut goals. Training Afghanistan's military should have included having them actively engaged in all military objectives from early on in the occupation. IOW, they should have been gaining actual experience in the field along with the training, not just training.
Obama should have got us out.
Trump fucked the dog when he freed 5000 Taliban. Including the ones taking charge now. No wonder the collapse happened so fast.
Biden really had no choice but to get out. It was going to be a painful exit no matter when it took place. Ask Russia. You'd think history would be a great teacher. Too bad the students are thick as pig shit.

[Bwana]

Biden and Johnson have women's blood on their hands.

Seriously? It's that simple? Nothing on Bush's hands for getting this shit going 20 years ago? Nothing on Obama's hands for continuing the process? Nothing on Trump's hands for freeing 5000 Taliban, including leaders? It's all on Biden for doing what should have been done 18 or 19 years ago but shouldn't have been necessary in the first place?

Oh, and it isn't as if the exit wasn't on the horizon.

[irie]

???

Do you not have access to the news where you are?

Not in English very often unless I look for it online. Which today I haven't because have been doing other things

Had a quick look on here and your post was a bit cryptic - to me

But now I understand, having read what else has been posted.

So sad. Devastating for all

Look at the Al Jazeera website: https://www.aljazeera.com/

[Screwdriver]

Shame so many people are wasting their time here when they could be master politicians sorting out the worlds problems.

It is not unusual for America to maintain a military presence in a foreign country, we have over 20 thousand here in the UK. The US is not "at war" with Afghanistan, they maintained a presence there as part of their "war on terror" in the forlorn hope the country would calm its tits and become a civilised nation.

Fat chance. It was an ambitious enterprise which worked well in keeping the peace while it lasted but clearly doomed to failure. Having said that, you can't blame Boris for also pulling out. Without the US military might alongside, our forces would be sitting ducks.

Even a phased withdrawal would have been challenging to pull off but to literally pull the rug out from under the US trained and US armed Afghan forces is an act of mindless stupidity. The entire military strategy for the local Afghan army was based around the availability of US surgical strike teams. No doubt they would also rely on US intel and communication systems. Until someone simply pulled the plug...

Seems they also left a TON of weaponry behind, now in the hands of the Taliban. After Vietnam, the US military came up with a term for it, Clusterfuck.

They might be evil, backwards, bloodthirsty savages, but the Taliban aren't stupid. I'm not looking forwards to seeing what message they send to the world once they have fully regained control.

[Bwana]

Seems they also left a TON of weaponry behind, now in the hands of the Taliban. After Vietnam, the US military came up with a term for it, Clusterfuck.

You'd think maybe destroying the shit would be in order before departure.

[Horse]

Seems they also left a TON of weaponry behind, now in the hands of the Taliban. After Vietnam, the US military came up with a term for it, Clusterfuck.

You'd think maybe destroying the shit would be in order before departure.

If it was intended to equip the new Afghan army, presumably they couldn't?

[irie]

... Even a phased withdrawal would have been challenging to pull off but to literally pull the rug out from under the US trained and US armed Afghan forces is an act of mindless stupidity ...

9/11* prompted the act of stupidity of entering Afghanistan without a credible exit policy, trumped [sic] by the even greater act of stupidity of this summary exit of Afghanistan. The fallout from this debacle will be disastrous.

* 20th anniversary next month.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Even a phased withdrawal would have been challenging to pull off but to literally pull the rug out from under the US trained and US armed Afghan forces is an act of mindless stupidity.

TBF they've been withdrawing for several years now? So a phased withdrawal is exactly what's been happening.

[irie]

Even a phased withdrawal would have been challenging to pull off but to literally pull the rug out from under the US trained and US armed Afghan forces is an act of mindless stupidity.

TBF they've been withdrawing for several years now? So a phased withdrawal is exactly what's been happening.

Well they didn't "phase" this end-game, did they? Or if they thought they had they've been proved disastrously wrong.

[DefTrap]

TBF they've been withdrawing for several years now? So a phased withdrawal is exactly what's been happening.

So at some point remaining forrin troops would be at a level where the Taliban would consider giving a takeover a go.

That's the only bit that seems a bit surprising to me. A really rapid exit strategy must have been considered, planned, as a likely end game once control had been lost. But it just looks like an unplanned mess.

[Screwdriver]

Can't argue with either of those observations from @irie or @Mr. Dazzle.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't and I appreciate a "phased withdrawal" is an easy phrase in theory, more tricky in practice.

But if it was a knee jerk reaction that got "us" involved in this "occupation" it has not been helped by the sudden knee jerk reaction to leave.

Internet/YouTube full of commentaries about how any strategic plans for the final withdrawal were simply ignored. It's every man for himself and the Biden administration decided to just do a runner.

That left thousands of "collaborators" in deep shit and knowing the Taliban, that might literally be true. Instead of a promised evacuation, they are scrambling to find their own way out. The Taliban will have a list of everybody who has helped the Americans or transgressed against the teachings of the Quran and they will have a plan.

As for leaving weapons behind, I believe the consensus is that without the direct real time support of the embedded US troops, the Afghan military were unable to use them. Must admit, that does strike you as something the greatest military power in the world might have considered.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Well yeah, it seems like they've disastrously under/over estimated the strength and readiness of the Taliban and internal Afghan security.

A failure of foreign intelligence? Who'd have thunk it.

[Trinity765]

Here or the jokes thread?