Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Mussels]

I found this calculator from Renault to work out the range you'll get at different speeds.
https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehi ... ttery.html
The WLTP figure is 245 miles which in the calculator corresponds to driving about 25mph the whole way.
Put the air temperature scale back to a more realistic 5 degrees and the absolute maximum range is 200 miles at 19mph without the heater on.
Move the slider up to 68mph and the range is now 129 miles, so in my 245 mile car I'd be looking for a charger every 100 miles. I might get more relaxed about that when chargers improve but it won't help the journey time much.

If I can find rapid chargers in the right places then it takes an hour for an 80% charge*. Visiting my parents who live 170 miles away is usually a 7 hour round trip, set off with a fully charged Zoe and that's an extra 3 hours charging on top of the 7 hours driving. If I have my family with me then a 15 minute stop each way leaves me with an extra 2.5 hours journey time. Combine that with increased fuel cost plus extra meals in the services it is a very slow and expensive way to travel, probably on a par with taking a train.
If an EV advocate calculated the same journey they would say it's a single charge each way and would cost very little as I can recharge at my parents house, they would fail to mention that I have to drive at 20mph (or 30mph with no heating) to just make it.

I think GM was spot on when he said electric cars are fine as long as you never need to drive more than 50 miles from home.

* The marketing makes it sound like it would take an hour to lift the battery from 20% to 100% but unless it's changed that's bad for a battery, so in reality I'd be pulling in at 20% and charging up to 80% making my range between stops 80 miles. I'm also assuming I can do multiple fast charges in a day which I know some cars can't.

[slowsider]

it is a very slow and expensive way to travel, probably on a par with taking a train.

Tbh I think you've inadvertently implicated the revision we may have to make: longer journeys by other means, with EV s for local trips.

[Wossname]

it is a very slow and expensive way to travel, probably on a par with taking a train.

Tbh I think you've inadvertently implicated the revision we may have to make: longer journeys by other means, with EV s for local trips.

So now I need 2 cars?

[Mr. Dazzle]

There is some more detailed information on range vs speed here.

https://teslike.com/

So in certain Teslas you could do the entire 170 miles at 80mph with plenty of range to spare. TBF a Tesla is a lot bigger and more expensive than a Zoe. It would also take a while to refill a 100kWh battery from a standard wall socket.

Porsche also seem to be very good at 'honest' range figures. Again, a Taycan is a very different beast to a Renault supermini. Porsche have also been having sideways digs at Tesla, pointing out their performance figures can be obtained "repeatably".

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2021 ... e-testing/

This is all first/second generation stuff, the pace of development is rapid at the moment.

[slowsider]

it is a very slow and expensive way to travel, probably on a par with taking a train.

Tbh I think you've inadvertently implicated the revision we may have to make: longer journeys by other means, with EV s for local trips.

So now I need 2 cars?

If you haven't got 2 already, you didn't try hard enough at school.

[Mussels]

I can't see me ever buying a Renault Zoe as a main car but it's the only example I've seen that shows what range I can expect on the motorway Vs official figures.
I would think the bigger cars aren't much better on long journeys as they have a bigger battery top up and more bulk to move, more energy required = more charging time. It only works if the whole journey is within range of a single charge.

I can see how this is the way ahead but the big battery breakthrough that's been talked about for years doesn't look any closer, all they have done is mitigate the problems and hide them.

[Mr. Dazzle]

In terms of efficiency bigger generally works out better, for any kind of vehicle. Drag scales roughly with the square of size but internal capacity with the cube. Thats why container ships and trains are fuggin' massive. It does assume you're fully loaded though.

In terms of BEVs, if you double the size of the car you can fit in 8 times more battery for only 4 times more drag (very roughly) and hence you can go twice as far. Thats why big Teslas and Porsches are the longest range.

I don't agree on the "promised battery breakthrough never coming". People expect a massive step change because thats how human brains work. The reality is more mundane, its a steady improvement which we're already seeing.

[millemille]

My 4 wheeled vehicle is a company one and I could choose any vehicle I want. Literally anything, there's no list as we're a small company, it's just a case of go and find what you want and buy it. I have a van (Citroen Dispatch) and it suits me perfectly; commercial vehicle so tax is minimal, good on fuel (genuine average of 48mpg), does get used as a van for work but is also so handy for motorbike and mountain bike transporting.

I drive about 35k miles a year in it, all round the country.

When there is a comparable electric van with a genuine 200 mile range and doesn't cost more than £40k I'll have one in a shot.

By coincidence I've just had an email from Vauxhall about this...

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vans/vivaro/ ... technology

...and I've got a test drive, only for an hour but that should be long enough to see how the battery holds up, next week.

[Hairybiker84]

Drag scales roughly with the square of size but internal capacity with the cube. Thats why container ships and trains are fuggin' massive. It does assume you're fully loaded though.

Drag is directly proportional to frontal area and coefficient of drag, only velocity is squared. 1/2 Ro V2 S Cd. I knew my aerodynamics would come in useful one day

[Rockburner]

IFrom the article, their intent is to make them more like motorway service areas than 'petrol stations'. So mrs CJ gets a T&P stop while the car is charging.

That will help a lot!

FWIW my nearest M'way is 80 miles away, so getting to refuel and home again will take 2-3 hours and leave me with a half empty 'tank'.

And both Mr and Mrs CJ avoid M'way services like the plague! Overpriced driver-rooking factories, mostly filthy. Ugh!

Sounds like you think you couldn't charge the car at home, is there a reason for that I've missed?

[Cousin Jack]

Sounds like you think you couldn't charge the car at home, is there a reason for that I've missed?

Yes, no garage, no driveway, parking slots in a courtyard remote from the house and with seriously expensive paving that would need about 8 sorts of permission to dig up.

[Mussels]

In terms of efficiency bigger generally works out better, for any kind of vehicle. Drag scales roughly with the square of size but internal capacity with the cube. Thats why container ships and trains are fuggin' massive. It does assume you're fully loaded though.

In terms of BEVs, if you double the size of the car you can fit in 8 times more battery for only 4 times more drag (very roughly) and hence you can go twice as far. Thats why big Teslas and Porsches are the longest range.

I don't agree on the "promised battery breakthrough never coming". People expect a massive step change because thats how human brains work. The reality is more mundane, its a steady improvement which we're already seeing.

What doesn't scale is the charging rate, same for higher and lower drag cars. So once you get outside the first charge range then the lower drag will be quicker as it doesn't need to charge as much
I wondered why the article you linked about Porsche talked about beating EPA instead of WLTP, turns out the results he returned are pretty much the WLTP figures. I saw that WLTP is all about city driving so low speed, EPA has more higher speed. Tesla probably do well on EPA as they have less drag.
This helps explain the difference a bit.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs. ... tings/amp/

[millemille]

My 4 wheeled vehicle is a company one and I could choose any vehicle I want. Literally anything, there's no list as we're a small company, it's just a case of go and find what you want and buy it. I have a van (Citroen Dispatch) and it suits me perfectly; commercial vehicle so tax is minimal, good on fuel (genuine average of 48mpg), does get used as a van for work but is also so handy for motorbike and mountain bike transporting.

I drive about 35k miles a year in it, all round the country.

When there is a comparable electric van with a genuine 200 mile range and doesn't cost more than £40k I'll have one in a shot.

By coincidence I've just had an email from Vauxhall about this...

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vans/vivaro/ ... technology

...and I've got a test drive, only for an hour but that should be long enough to see how the battery holds up, next week.

Having popped in to the Vauxhall dealer supplying the van (although it turns out it's actually a people carrier version, same platform and battery) for a quick chat with a salesman about the test drive I shan't be bothering with the test drive now.

The salesman, to his credit, was brutally honest; having asked me what kind of range I was expecting and I said "200 miles, as the Vauxhall website states" and he shook his head and said "130 miles if you're lucky". Throw in some weight in the back and a spot of motorway cruising and you'll be going well to get 100..."

I can't make that work.

[Kneerly Down]

No.1 son has taken over a 50kW electric charging point as part of a lease. He's not used it himself but has been presented with a £280 bill but no corresponding income as yet.

There's been Tesla after BMW after Tesla there today.
I asked one of them how much per unit the charge was costing.

£0.00 per kWh.
I think I might have to park my van in front of it until we find out how the contract for it is actually supposed to work!
I don't think my 22y.o. son with his 1.5 Clio should be paying for people with £30-80k motors to fill up for nothing!!

[Asian Boss]

No.1 son has taken over a 50kW electric charging point as part of a lease. He's not used it himself but has been presented with a £280 bill but no corresponding income as yet.

There's been Tesla after BMW after Tesla there today.
I asked one of them how much per unit the charge was costing.

£0.00 per kWh.
I think I might have to park my van in front of it until we find out how the contract for it is actually supposed to work!
I don't think my 22y.o. son with his 1.5 Clio should be paying for people with £30-80k motors to fill up for nothing!!

But they're part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[Mussels]

No.1 son has taken over a 50kW electric charging point as part of a lease. He's not used it himself but has been presented with a £280 bill but no corresponding income as yet.

There's been Tesla after BMW after Tesla there today.
I asked one of them how much per unit the charge was costing.

£0.00 per kWh.
I think I might have to park my van in front of it until we find out how the contract for it is actually supposed to work!
I don't think my 22y.o. son with his 1.5 Clio should be paying for people with £30-80k motors to fill up for nothing!!

Expensive lease, is it a commercial one?

[Cousin Jack]

I think I might have to park my van in front of it until we find out how the contract for it is actually supposed to work!
I don't think my 22y.o. son with his 1.5 Clio should be paying for people with £30-80k motors to fill up for nothing!!

You may need to have a word with your son regarding that lease. Like "read and understand before you sign anything".

[Docca]

I would now. Ordered one yesterday, will be here mid September.

New all electric Volvo XC40. Reckons range is 260, but What Car has it at 200 ish.

Need to look in to wall chargers now to try and see what deals I can get.

[Skub]

I would now. Ordered one yesterday, will be here mid September.

New all electric Volvo XC40. Reckons range is 260, but What Car has it at 200 ish.

Need to look in to wall chargers now to try and see what deals I can get.

60k for a car?

[Cousin Jack]

Friday's trip, Cornwall to Lancaster. 355 mile, 6 hours or so, assuming no major hold-ups. No fueling necessary, should have at least 100 mile reserve.

Wonder how long for a leccy car.