Communication devices between bikes

[The Spin Doctor]

If you want something that works reasonably well but don't want to spend a fortune, look at the V6 intercoms. You'll find a number of suppliers on eBay. I use them for training. They're a bit fuzzy over 60-odd but I can still give directions on the motorway except on a very windy day. You should find a pair for around £70-80.

You can get better ones for sure (and someone will be along in a moment to tell you that), but as trainees have a tendency to destroy radios I won't spend a fortune on them. I know to my cost just what daft things they can do. "I could have sworn it wouldn't fall out of my pocket" is something I've heard too many times. Particularly irritating as I give them the radio in a waist bag.

EDIT - I meant to say that a lot of clarity issues are to do with microphone positioning and windnoise in the chin guard area of the helmet - some helmets are unbelievably noisy, my old Shoei flip was and I never did use it for training. The trainee could never hear anything.

[KungFooBob]

I've got a Cardo Scala Rider G4 Teamset. They're probably a decade old now, but still work a treat. Batteries last all day and the range is pretty good.

Quality goes a bit to pot over 80mph.

I'm sure there's better available now, if I had to buy new I'd go for Cardo again.

[Dodgy69]

Me and my mate use this every ride. Chatting all the way. Can be connected to phone for sat nav or music.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FreedConn-TC ... 635-2958-0

[wheelnut]

Probably Sena kit is where you want to be. Can use it for music through your phone and intercom between bikes. Spendy but not ridiculously so.

[Bigyin]

The 44 teeth lads use the Cardo Pack Talk system for bike to bike comms but that is expensive. I have a Cardo Freecom 2 set up for me and the missus but i dont know on the range of that between bikes as she is always sat right behind me

Like Spin i use fairly cheap PMR radios for training with a boom mic. My Shoei Neotec is fairly quiet due to the skirting underneath and students can hear me up to motorway speeds however i have them set one way ..... Instructor talks, trainee comply and carry out the task/follow directions rather than getting distracted with a conversation but they can be set to VOX for each radio for conversation if needed but limited to one person speaking at a time whereas the proper intercoms can be chatty and hear each other at same time

[PitaNaanRoti]

Make sure you get Mesh systems though.
I've Sena and Cardo. Across various types/makes of helmet.
The Pactalk Bold/Slim are leagues ahead of the Sena's using standard bluetooth intercom mode.
They will also do BT so can link to basically any other manufacturer.
We have the Sena's at work too and wish we'd pushed to get Mesh versions as groups are insufferable with interference. This can be got rid of by someone making/receiving a call which then removes it when they come back in for some odd reason! And these are all brand new with the latest firmware - Sena have told us its our fault yet they were all bought direct in bulk.
Add in the Cardo are actually fully waterproof where Sena are water resistant

[The Spin Doctor]

The 44 teeth lads use the Cardo Pack Talk system for bike to bike comms but that is expensive. I have a Cardo Freecom 2 set up for me and the missus but i dont know on the range of that between bikes as she is always sat right behind me

Like Spin i use fairly cheap PMR radios for training with a boom mic. My Shoei Neotec is fairly quiet due to the skirting underneath and students can hear me up to motorway speeds however i have them set one way ..... Instructor talks, trainee comply and carry out the task/follow directions rather than getting distracted with a conversation but they can be set to VOX for each radio for conversation if needed but limited to one person speaking at a time whereas the proper intercoms can be chatty and hear each other at same time

I gave up on the PMRs five or six years ago when the bluetooth systems became affordable.

The V6s I use are multi-channel and duplex, but not 'pack talk' - that is, you can synch multiple units but only one pair can talk back and forth at the same time. Which pair is controlled by the buttons on the headset.

On the rare occasions I have two trainees (friends or partners only) I swap back and forth at intervals. They are a bit fiddly with gloves so I usually swap at a standstill. I used to use earpieces (so no talking back) but now offer a two-way headset as an option.

[Bigyin]

I used to use earpieces (so no talking back) but now offer a two-way headset as an option.

For your style of training and clientele i would expect the 2 way option is more productive. For my clientele i want them to nod and do what they are told straight away for their own safety

[The Spin Doctor]

For your style of training and clientele i would expect the 2 way option is more productive. For my clientele i want them to nod and do what they are told straight away for their own safety

When briefing for CBT and DAS I used to explain that the radio was "I talk, you listen".

Yet I'm on a FB instructors group and there are quite a few on there who expect their DAS trainees to be able to do commentaries as they ride... which to me seems utter madness. Half the time, they struggle to spot buses and brick walls, so getting them chatting away and using valuable brain processing power to try to frame works seem daft to me, particularly as a big chunk of my brain would be focused on trying to figure out what daft thing they'd do next and try to forestall it.

Even on the post-test training, I don't get trainees to do commentary rides - I stop at an interesting point, then ask them to describe what they see and how they'd deal with it. And even more frequently, I get them to explain their thought processes from a video of the ride

[Bigyin]

When briefing for CBT and DAS I used to explain that the radio was "I talk, you listen".

Yet I'm on a FB instructors group and there are quite a few on there who expect their DAS trainees to be able to do commentaries as they ride... which to me seems utter madness. Half the time, they struggle to spot buses and brick walls, so getting them chatting away and using valuable brain processing power to try to frame works seem daft to me, particularly as a big chunk of my brain would be focused on trying to figure out what daft thing they'd do next and try to forestall it.

Even on the post-test training, I don't get trainees to do commentary rides - I stop at an interesting point, then ask them to describe what they see and how they'd deal with it. And even more frequently, I get them to explain their thought processes from a video of the ride

As you said, thats madness.

Even when fully trained in my former life i used to to find it quite a challenge to do a proper surveillance commentary while driving at speed. Hence why the driver does his job, the passenger does the commentary and navigation unless you end up on your tod or were @Whysub on the bike.

Trying to get a trainee to have a chat would be so distracting to the point of dangerous IMO. If they need to speak than its stop at the side of the road and speak then to resolve the issue then carry on. I also tend to stop them and speak if i think they have "switched off" as hearing is one of the first senses to lose under stress.

For Iccy, i suspect its more of a "turn off here mate, its a good road with a decent cafe at the end" rather than what we need

[Horse]

Do any of the non-PMR options have effective noise cancelling?

All of my stuff was post-test, but trainees were earpiece only. They had a radio, I used a Starcom* system (which had various input options for phone and GPS). That had a really good noise cancelling system on VOX which eliminated wind noise. I set it once and never had to adjust after. But I know Spin tried one and struggled (& IIRC, gave up).

* linked to a PMR. I had a Motorola Handicom, the trainees had budget sets. I worked on the basis that a better transmission would be better across any cheap receiver.

[Rockburner]

I've had 3 different Cardo sets over the years, IIRC the first set was a pair of G4s, then G9s, now on a pair of PackTalk Bolds.

imvho the G4s were the best. Simple, did everything I wanted (phone calls, talking to up to 4 other units), reasonable line-of-site distance.

As the units get newer, Cardo seem to keep trying to force more and more functionality in that means the quality and reliability gets gradually worse.

The new PackTalk Bolds (they're about 6 years old now) are supposed to have great 'mesh' functionality, etc etc, but we've found that the basic ability to communicate clearly is poor - low incoming volume and things like that. (And I'm only talking to a pillion!) Also the buttons have become much smaller, and the 'voice interface' (think Cardo's version of Alexa) is dumb as a brick and you apparantly can NOT turn it off. The number of button presses to do anything is way beyond memorisation, so much so that you now need an app to use the frigging things, which is pants.



so - I'd recommend casting about for a 2nd hand Scala G4 or G9 and getting the batteries replaced (they'll probably be ok tbh), especially if all you want it for is you and your son (ie, only 2 units).

[PitaNaanRoti]

You can turn the "Hey Cardo" off in about 3s using either the app or your laptop.
RTFM
Also - if you haven't selected "English UK" as your language then it will be "dumb as fuck" as its listening for a septic to open their mouth.
No issues with any of the volume across a pair of Bold's and a pair of Slim's and a single Slim.
Using bluetooth intercom mode instead of mesh can cause some interference but mesh is seamless. Picks dropped (because of distance/LoS) connections back up without touching a button and crystal clear past the national speed limit.
Careful mic placement is key - the boom if it isn't properly located will give low voice but then its designed with activation sensitivity thresholds because of its intended use.

[The Spin Doctor]

Do any of the non-PMR options have effective noise cancelling?

All of my stuff was post-test, but trainees were earpiece only. They had a radio, I used a Starcom* system (which had various input options for phone and GPS). That had a really good noise cancelling system on VOX which eliminated wind noise. I set it once and never had to adjust after. But I know Spin tried one and struggled (& IIRC, gave up).

* linked to a PMR. I had a Motorola Handicom, the trainees had budget sets. I worked on the basis that a better transmission would be better across any cheap receiver.

My V6 units are pretty good, but they are a bit dependent on getting the mike in the right place. Out on the bike on Thursday, I could barely hear my passenger - turned out she'd somehow reversed the mike. After that was twisted 180 it was far better.

[Whysub]

As you said, thats madness.

Even when fully trained in my former life i used to to find it quite a challenge to do a proper surveillance commentary while driving at speed. Hence why the driver does his job, the passenger does the commentary and navigation unless you end up on your tod or were @Whysub on the bike.

Trying to get a trainee to have a chat would be so distracting to the point of dangerous IMO. If they need to speak than its stop at the side of the road and speak then to resolve the issue then carry on. I also tend to stop them and speak if i think they have "switched off" as hearing is one of the first senses to lose under stress.

For Iccy, i suspect its more of a "turn off here mate, its a good road with a decent cafe at the end" rather than what we need

When doing my advanced car training you had to do a short commentary on each drive. I found it very difficult to do as learning to drive safely, smoothly at at speed was challenging enough. It got easier to do as the course progressed, but never easy. Never had to do the commentary on the bike courses. Although we had radios, all communication was by hand signals (which aided mirror checks)

I did not have an issue with commentating during surveillance, as that was its own discipline, and calls were kept short and sweet, even at over twice the national speed limit. Most of the time I did not have a second driver to assist.

As for riding in groups, we have ridden all over Europe and never had the need for communication other than the obvious signals to stop for fuel or tea.

[Rockburner]

You can turn the "Hey Cardo" off in about 3s using either the app or your laptop.
RTFM

I did. It comes back on, generally half way through a ride.

Also - if you haven't selected "English UK" as your language then it will be "dumb as fuck" as its listening for a septic to open their mouth.
No issues with any of the volume across a pair of Bold's and a pair of Slim's and a single Slim.
Using bluetooth intercom mode instead of mesh can cause some interference but mesh is seamless. Picks dropped (because of distance/LoS) connections back up without touching a button and crystal clear past the national speed limit.
Careful mic placement is key - the boom if it isn't properly located will give low voice but then its designed with activation sensitivity thresholds because of its intended use.

My other half's mic (not boom) is directly in front of her mouth in the helmet (checked multiple times), mine (oddly) is actually stuck to the padding to one side, actually aimed 'forwards' (I switched helmets recently, previously it was stuck to the chin bar directly in front of my mouth, aimed AT my mouth), with no loss of volume (according to gf). So they can't be THAT sensitive to position - unless I've got lucky and the new Shoei has an acoustically perfect volume of space inside the chin-bar.

[PitaNaanRoti]

Try swapping to the boom maybe. They fixed are really sensitive positions and to the sensitivity settings in the software as well.
My oH has a habit of forgetting to speak up then blaming me for not listening to her! Maybe yours just isn't talking loudly enough? (not that that would usually be something to complain of....)
I just put up with the cutting in of the mic a little more after adjusting the Vox sensitivity

[Rockburner]

Try swapping to the boom maybe.

Not a lot of room in her helmet tbh.

They fixed are really sensitive positions and to the sensitivity settings in the software as well.

what?

My oH has a habit of forgetting to speak up then blaming me for not listening to her! Maybe yours just isn't talking loudly enough? (not that that would usually be something to complain of....)

Perhaps - but even if she shouts (I can hear the difference), I can still barely hear her.

I just put up with the cutting in of the mic a little more after adjusting the Vox sensitivity

May have to try that.

[PitaNaanRoti]

Try swapping to the boom maybe.

Not a lot of room in her helmet tbh. We've both got the booms inside ours

The fixed are really sensitive to positions and to the sensitivity settings in the software as well.

what? FTFY[/]

My oH has a habit of forgetting to speak up then blaming me for not listening to her! Maybe yours just isn't talking loudly enough? (not that that would usually be something to complain of....)

Perhaps - but even if she shouts (I can hear the difference), I can still barely hear her.

sounds like the mic

I just put up with the cutting in of the mic a little more after adjusting the Vox sensitivity

May have to try that.

[PitaNaanRoti]

Post a screenshot of your settings and we can see if we can help against what ours are.