Douwe Egberts Coffee

[Screwdriver]

I don't think people go into nursing for the money. It is more of a vocation and less of a job. It is also one of the very few vocations with extremely valuable on the job (!) training. Many (too many) cash in on that and having been trained, find better employment elsewhere, possibly for the money I suppose but largely I assume for the working conditions.

Contrast with truck driving where the UK license is a barrier to entry with it being so expensive and who (other than those identified by Clarkson) would choose lorry driving as their ideal job?

[Saga Lout]

The recent pay increase offer btw will be funded by each organisation and not from the centre. What that means is we’ll have to cut something to accommodate it. Like a waiting list here or service there.

Cutting waiting lists would get my vote.

[Docca]

I don't think people go into nursing for the money. It is more of a vocation and less of a job. It is also one of the very few vocations with extremely valuable on the job (!) training. Many (too many) cash in on that and having been trained, find better employment elsewhere, possibly for the money I suppose but largely I assume for the working conditions.

Nursing is very much a profession now and has been for decades. Long gone are the vocational views; housewives helping out a bit down the local field hospital whilst hubby does a proper job.

It’s regulated. It’s got a professional registration. You need a degree to get in now and you are revalidated every 3 years to offer proof you are still fit to practice. That’s not a gateway assessment for more pay, that’s part of the professional requirement.

Nurses are now prescribing, doing surgical procedures and leading the charge in other areas such as health IT. It’s a proper job now

The money isn’t that much better elsewhere. You might get some tax breaks working in the sand, but it’s largely similar. Working conditions are not compatible though: the best places to work remain Australia and Germany.

[Mussels]

Applications for WHAT are high for now?

Nurse training according to the Beeb the other day. I know they take time to filter through but it's no incentive to give nurses a pay rise.
All the time they can get nurses for low money it will continue to be low paid, until we hit a problem like hauliers have.

[Screwdriver]

I don't think people go into nursing for the money. It is more of a vocation and less of a job. It is also one of the very few vocations with extremely valuable on the job (!) training. Many (too many) cash in on that and having been trained, find better employment elsewhere, possibly for the money I suppose but largely I assume for the working conditions.

Nursing is very much a profession now and has been for decades. Long gone are the vocational views; housewives helping out a bit down the local field hospital whilst hubby does a proper job.

It’s regulated. It’s got a professional registration. You need a degree to get in now and you are revalidated every 3 years to offer proof you are still fit to practice. That’s not a gateway assessment for more pay, that’s part of the professional requirement.

Nurses are now prescribing, doing surgical procedures and leading the charge in other areas such as health IT. It’s a proper job now

The money isn’t that much better elsewhere. You might get some tax breaks working in the sand, but it’s largely similar. Working conditions are not compatible though: the best places to work remain Australia and Germany.

I don't believe that is true. There isn't enough money in the world to make me want to work with blood, shit and vomit and I suggest at the very least, a nurse would need to be a people person. Not sure what the "housewife help" comment is all about, is that an attempt to redefine the meaning of "vocation"? I am using the term in the literal sense and I refute the suggestion that just because one regards their role as a vocation, that demotes it to less than "a proper job".

Similarly, I am not suggesting the qualification system is any sort of gateway so I am not sure what you are arguing against. Within the topic of the haulage industry being short of drivers, I merely contrast the vocational, training and progression within those roles compared to say, nursing which turned up in this thread for some other reason. I contrast how within nursing, training is "free" as opposed to acquiring a license to drive a lorry which is certainly not.

Progression within nursing can (I assume) lead to any one of a number of spectacularly diverse actual occupations whereas no matter how good you are as a driver, you are going to progress in that role and still end up driving a lorry. Maybe you get a bigger lorry??

So I am just highlighting the differences between these roles to suggest why one respected and valuable role is perhaps less well subscribed than another. I think there should be less of an obsession with "getting a degree" and more emphasis on vocational training which I further suggest should be supplied by the relevant industry, perhaps with government support.

[Supermofo]

Might be a driver shortage, but no shortages of bloody lorries in lane 3 of the M25 today

[asmethurst99]

The Guardian, the last bastion of unbiased reporting
How have truck drivers and warehousing staff done by the same measure?

I wasn't the one claiming guaranteed pay rises was I?

Fact is NHS get a pay increase every year, lots of people don't, some people get pay cuts.

Fact is wrong - I'm a band 7 and until 2 years ago I hadn't had a pay increase for a while as I'd got to,the top of my band .
I had a real terms cut of about 25 quid a month at one point as our Pension contribution had gone up (my pension is ok thanks )

[irie]

I wasn't the one claiming guaranteed pay rises was I?

Fact is NHS get a pay increase every year, lots of people don't, some people get pay cuts.

Fact is wrong - I'm a band 7 and until 2 years ago I hadn't had a pay increase for a while as I'd got to,the top of my band .
I had a real terms cut of about 25 quid a month at one point as our Pension contribution had gone up (my pension is ok thanks )

So you believe that increasing your contribution to your retirement pension is a pay cut? Jeez, you couldn't make it up.

[asmethurst99]

My monthly pay check lessened - My pension didn’t get any bigger .
I didn’t go into the job for the pension.
We aren’t badly paid in inner London IMO .

[irie]

You need to get your head around the relationship between public sector pay pension contribution deductions and the final value of those pensions.

[Yambo]

If they want more HGV drivers they should pay people to train and pass their license.

And then treat them like human beings, even essential workers.

Then the government needs to do more so that drivers who have to spend nights out, have somewhere to park up, get a meal and a shower and don't get their load stolen.

Then the public need to stop treating them like they are bottom of the food chain. If there's no coffee on the shelves they can blame themseives.

[Yambo]

Victory is rhe great, bright, beautiful flower. Transport is the stem without which it could never have flourished.

[Saga Lout]

Then the public need to stop treating them like they are bottom of the food chain.

Whoa! Hang on!

We all need people to look down on. If we aren't allowed to denigrate truck drivers, who do you suggest replaces them. You can't just take away our figures of disdain without replacing them. The public needs to know.

[weeksy]

Then the public need to stop treating them like they are bottom of the food chain.

Whoa! Hang on!

We all need people to look down on. If we aren't allowed to denigrate truck drivers, who do you suggest replaces them. You can't just take away our figures of disdain without replacing them. The public needs to know.

Fatties who wear inappropriate clothing

[JackyJoll]

stop treating them like they are bottom of the food chain.

I was one. They’re cunts.

[JackyJoll]

Fatties who wear inappropriate clothing

That’s still lorry drivers.

[JackyJoll]

It always seems weird to me that people choose to do a job and then moan that they don't get paid as much as they would like - change jobs then...or stay and get whatever it pays.
If you're getting less than you think you're worth then it's not someone else's fault, it's because of your choices.

Or you’re not worth what you think!

[Mr. Dazzle]

If we aren't allowed to denigrate truck drivers, who do you suggest replaces them.

Cyclists. Duh.

I feel like this whole problem could be solved with self driving trucks and/or greater use of textured insect protein.

[Saga Lout]

Fatties who wear inappropriate clothing

That’s still lorry drivers.

And cyclists.

[Horse]

Progression ... whereas no matter how good you are as a driver, you are going to progress in that role and still end up driving a lorry. Maybe you get a bigger lorry??

Potter is the one who occasionally posts about ambition, etc., but doesn't that apply here? If someone is content (at the level of being prepared to put up with [insert whatever here, wages/shifts/etc]) then they'll stay, if not then they'll do more or different? Whatever job or career.

For example:

A guy near here had a lorry, got paid to remove rubble from demolition sites and dump it.

He found that he could also get paid for delivering hard core rubble to building sites.

He then found that removal of large concrete chunks was required from some sites, was more expensive. So he imported from the USA a used concrete crusher. Then removed the concrete and delivered hard core.

He ended up with a fleet of 50 trucks, his family now run a reclamation yard.

That guy had ambition. But he could barely read and write.