Douwe Egberts Coffee

[Mussels]

So he’s an exec, not a warehouse monkey. There is demonstrable differences between recruiting drivers now to before Brexit. The supply of cheap workforce has all but disappeared.

We don’t apparently have the resource in the UK to cover it ( Covid hasn’t helped- because they were trying to train British drivers). With the average age at nearly 60 of what we do have, there simply isn’t the throughput. British people don’t want to work for £12/hour. They also don’t want to do the other Lowe-paid jobs such as waiting tables or cleaning etc.

That’s fine. We’ll all pay a bit more to give everyone a better wage I’m sure. We’ll have to overcome the generation of people who think this is beneath them too, mind.

Personally, I order my coffee beans locally now.

You appear to be fine with paying HGV drivers low wages so you can have cheap coffee, must be great sat in the NHS Ivory tower where there's no competition for jobs, guaranteed pay rises, no redundancies and a gold plated pension, telling everyone how left wing you are.

Ermm..
"Pay for nurses and other NHS staff in England will have fallen in real terms by more than 7% since 2010, even if they accept the latest offer from the government, according to new analysis that will fuel rising anger about public sector pay deals."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ment-offer

Nurses may also find their wages rising as a result of brexit, the halo effect of covid will need a year to wear off as applications are high for now.

[Screwdriver]

It costs about £4-5k to acquire an HGV license so I imagine all these hauliers are busy organising training schedules, apprenticeships and driver training incentives. Except of course no. They are not. In fact they have been cancelling such efforts for decades as a cost saving exercise.

Well, they saved all those costs involved in creating sufficient drivers at the bottom to replenish all those retirees falling off the top. I guess they must have a plan for what to do as they inevitably run out of skilled drivers.

Again, no just piss and moan about Brexit or COVID like that's going to help. This is a problem of their own making.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Ermm..
"Pay for nurses and other NHS staff in England will have fallen in real terms by more than 7% since 2010, even if they accept the latest offer from the government, according to new analysis that will fuel rising anger about public sector pay deals."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ment-offer

The Guardian, the last bastion of unbiased reporting
How have truck drivers and warehousing staff done by the same measure?

[gremlin]

Cut through the bullshit of Brexit, Covid, blah, blah, blah and get to the crux of the issue.

When was the last time you saw a Yorkie Bar? Eh? Think about it....


Watch that advert and you'll be humming that tune all afternoon...

[JackyJoll]

Pimlico Plumers

I still call them fluffers.

[slowsider]

Ermm..
"Pay for nurses and other NHS staff in England will have fallen in real terms by more than 7% since 2010, even if they accept the latest offer from the government, according to new analysis that will fuel rising anger about public sector pay deals."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ment-offer

The Guardian, the last bastion of unbiased reporting
How have truck drivers and warehousing staff done by the same measure?

I wasn't the one claiming guaranteed pay rises was I?

[slowsider]

It costs about £4-5k to acquire an HGV license so I imagine all these hauliers are busy organising training schedules, apprenticeships and driver training incentives. Except of course no. They are not. In fact they have been cancelling such efforts for decades as a cost saving exercise.

Well, they saved all those costs involved in creating sufficient drivers at the bottom to replenish all those retirees falling off the top. I guess they must have a plan for what to do as they inevitably run out of skilled drivers.

Again, no just piss and moan about Brexit or COVID like that's going to help. This is a problem of their own making.

Nothing to do with consignors going for lowest bidders because consumers demand ever-cheaper products with 'free' delivery.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Ermm..
"Pay for nurses and other NHS staff in England will have fallen in real terms by more than 7% since 2010, even if they accept the latest offer from the government, according to new analysis that will fuel rising anger about public sector pay deals."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ment-offer

The Guardian, the last bastion of unbiased reporting
How have truck drivers and warehousing staff done by the same measure?

I wasn't the one claiming guaranteed pay rises was I?

Fact is NHS get a pay increase every year, lots of people don't, some people get pay cuts.

[Saga Lout]

Fact is NHS get a pay increase every year, lots of people don't, some people get pay cuts.

The NHS gets an increase in funding in real terms pretty much every year. If some of that isn't trickling down to the nurses maybe, and I just throw this out as a possibility, maybe that's because the NHS is top heavy with management and the money stays at the top.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Of they're spending more money looking after an increasingly decrepit population.

[slowsider]

Fact is NHS get a pay increase every year, lots of people don't, some people get pay cuts.

The NHS gets an increase in funding in real terms pretty much every year. If some of that isn't trickling down to the nurses maybe, and I just throw this out as a possibility, maybe that's because the NHS is top heavy with management and the money stays at the top.

Dare I suggest a similar reason for the other part of cheesie's point?

[Docca]

You appear to be fine with paying HGV drivers low wages so you can have cheap coffee, must be great sat in the NHS Ivory tower where there's no competition for jobs, guaranteed pay rises, no redundancies and a gold plated pension, telling everyone how left wing you are.

I’m not sure where I’ve said any of that? I get my coffee locally because it’s just up the road and I walk there.

I don’t condone low wages, or what I really think you’re trying to say is undervaluing a workforce.

The competition point must be lost on you in this context as drivers can, and are quite literally naming their price. If it’s exposed an industry that’s been underinvested in and we need to do more? Fine- one of my challenges in this thinking is where are the new drivers coming from?

I’m not quite sure what the going rate is for driving a lorry. I’d guess it would be proportionate with actual skills required?

The rest of your comments are just twaddle. I’d suspect if you ever tried to interview for anything more challenging than putting your foot on one of 3 pedals at a time and occasionally eating a fry up, you’d have a point. Your pension point is moot nowadays too.

£12 /hour and £25/hour

https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/h ... les-202122

£12/ hour is approx newly qualified nursing wage. 3 ( or 4 ) years training. Lots of responsibilities even straight out the gate.

£25 /hour. Approx band 8b. That’s leading multiple teams. Usually between 40 and 90 staff.

For that 25/h role you’ll have to go through an assessment centre as part of your interview process. That’s a day of being grilled by occupational psychologists etc nowadays. What’s the vetting process like for lorry drivers?

Good point on low wages though. Really stood up well by comparison

[Mr. Dazzle]

You appear to be fine with paying HGV drivers low wages so you can have cheap coffee, must be great sat in the NHS Ivory tower where there's no competition for jobs, guaranteed pay rises, no redundancies and a gold plated pension, telling everyone how left wing you are.

I’m not sure where I’ve said any of that? I get my coffee locally because it’s just up the road and I walk there.

How does he/she get it then? I'm assuming they don't walk/swim to the tropics and collect it themselves.

[Docca]

Fact is NHS get a pay increase every year, lots of people don't, some people get pay cuts.

The NHS gets an increase in funding in real terms pretty much every year. If some of that isn't trickling down to the nurses maybe, and I just throw this out as a possibility, maybe that's because the NHS is top heavy with management and the money stays at the top.

Growing population

Increasingly complex needs

More elderly

Etc etc.

If you’re equating ‘funding increase’ to wages only, you’re misguided. The ‘fact’ is that due to gross underfunding of workforce development, we have a staffing crisis. We can’t accommodate new services, we can’t staff as-hoc interests ( such as Nightingale hospitals) and our workforce is getting so old now that we are making the average age of the UK motorcyclist look youthful.

[Docca]

You appear to be fine with paying HGV drivers low wages so you can have cheap coffee, must be great sat in the NHS Ivory tower where there's no competition for jobs, guaranteed pay rises, no redundancies and a gold plated pension, telling everyone how left wing you are.

I’m not sure where I’ve said any of that? I get my coffee locally because it’s just up the road and I walk there.

How does he/she get it then? I'm assuming they don't walk/swim to the tropics and collect it themselves.

Why, by boat and plane people who are also valued and no doubt earn a fortune and haven’t been impacted by all the issues described already.

[Docca]

You appear to be fine with paying HGV drivers low wages so you can have cheap coffee, must be great sat in the NHS Ivory tower where there's no competition for jobs, guaranteed pay rises, no redundancies and a gold plated pension, telling everyone how left wing you are.

Ermm..
"Pay for nurses and other NHS staff in England will have fallen in real terms by more than 7% since 2010, even if they accept the latest offer from the government, according to new analysis that will fuel rising anger about public sector pay deals."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ment-offer

Nurses may also find their wages rising as a result of brexit, the halo effect of covid will need a year to wear off as applications are high for now.

Applications for WHAT are high for now?

Fromage: I find the same people who scoff at the Guardian are those who get all gammon-like when people don’t swallow their Daily Mail bullshit.
( I don’t read either, but to rule out of hand the statement just because of the source is stupid).

I’ve given you a comparison of what £12 and £25 / hour looks like from an NHS perspective. That’s fact.

The recent pay increase offer btw will be funded by each organisation and not from the centre. What that means is we’ll have to cut something to accommodate it. Like a waiting list here or service there.

[Saga Lout]

Of they're spending more money looking after an increasingly decrepit population.

The pandemic should have corrected that little problem then.

[Saga Lout]

Fromage: I find the same people who scoff at the Guardian are those who get all gammon-like when people don’t swallow their Daily Mail bullshit.
( I don’t read either, but to rule out of hand the statement just because of the source is stupid).

But with the Mail and the Grauniad it does save an awful lot of time.

[MrLongbeard]

Bloody terrible stuff, I'd sooner savour my own boiled piss than drink that muck.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Ermm..
"Pay for nurses and other NHS staff in England will have fallen in real terms by more than 7% since 2010, even if they accept the latest offer from the government, according to new analysis that will fuel rising anger about public sector pay deals."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ment-offer

Nurses may also find their wages rising as a result of brexit, the halo effect of covid will need a year to wear off as applications are high for now.

Applications for WHAT are high for now?

Fromage: I find the same people who scoff at the Guardian are those who get all gammon-like when people don’t swallow their Daily Mail bullshit.
( I don’t read either, but to rule out of hand the statement just because of the source is stupid).

I’ve given you a comparison of what £12 and £25 / hour looks like from an NHS perspective. That’s fact.

The recent pay increase offer btw will be funded by each organisation and not from the centre. What that means is we’ll have to cut something to accommodate it. Like a waiting list here or service there.

Yes, you're right