Test ride : Honda CB1000R. 2021 model.

[weeksy]

It’s weird, we know you like the feel of the triple but at all revs the Cb has more power and torque at the rear wheel. At 4K and 6k revs it has 20hp more than the xsr. Same with the torque so not sure why it didn’t feel quicker unless you weren’t opening the throttle enough ? Maybe the xsr has more power on a part throttle although I can’t see it. Like I say weird but even so you’ll never make an Il4 feel like a triple so it’s not gonna happen for you. Shame as it seemed like you loved it

I did. But I'm not an IL4 kind of guy and the engine just didn't excite me. With 145bhp it can't have been slow of course.

[Yorick]

It’s weird, we know you like the feel of the triple but at all revs the Cb has more power and torque at the rear wheel. At 4K and 6k revs it has 20hp more than the xsr. Same with the torque so not sure why it didn’t feel quicker unless you weren’t opening the throttle enough ? Maybe the xsr has more power on a part throttle although I can’t see it. Like I say weird but even so you’ll never make an Il4 feel like a triple so it’s not gonna happen for you. Shame as it seemed like you loved it

I did. But I'm not an IL4 kind of guy and the engine just didn't excite me. With 145bhp it can't have been slow of course.

I know a nice blue bike that'd make you giggle

[weeksy]

It’s weird, we know you like the feel of the triple but at all revs the Cb has more power and torque at the rear wheel. At 4K and 6k revs it has 20hp more than the xsr. Same with the torque so not sure why it didn’t feel quicker unless you weren’t opening the throttle enough ? Maybe the xsr has more power on a part throttle although I can’t see it. Like I say weird but even so you’ll never make an Il4 feel like a triple so it’s not gonna happen for you. Shame as it seemed like you loved it

I did. But I'm not an IL4 kind of guy and the engine just didn't excite me. With 145bhp it can't have been slow of course.

I know a nice blue bike that'd make you giggle

I honestly don't think it would, you can't grasp how little I like riding sportsbikes these days, I just can't get on with them and make them go round a bend

[Horse]

But I'm not an IL4 kind of guy and the engine just didn't excite me. With 145bhp it can't have been slow of course.

I had a BMW K75 for a while, between K100s. All RTs, so near identical weight.

Slower, less power - nothing much below 4k revs, unlike the 100s which had a torque curve the shape of a housebrick and power curve that felt the same.

Compared to the 100, it had to be 1 gear lower to perform the same.

But. At that 4k it sounded like a jet engine and was more (in relative terms) fun to ride.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It’s weird, we know you like the feel of the triple but at all revs the Cb has more power and torque at the rear wheel. At 4K and 6k revs it has 20hp more than the xsr. Same with the torque so not sure why it didn’t feel quicker unless you weren’t opening the throttle enough ? Maybe the xsr has more power on a part throttle although I can’t see it. Like I say weird but even so you’ll never make an Il4 feel like a triple so it’s not gonna happen for you. Shame as it seemed like you loved it

That's kinda what I meant when I said "feels fast" is as important as "is fast" on the road. Presumably the CB would oull away from the XSR at any speed if your numbers are accurate but maybe it doesn't feel that way, and since weeksy isn't riding against the clock....

[Yorick]

I did. But I'm not an IL4 kind of guy and the engine just didn't excite me. With 145bhp it can't have been slow of course.

I know a nice blue bike that'd make you giggle

I honestly don't think it would, you can't grasp how little I like riding sportsbikes these days, I just can't get on with them and make them go round a bend

I just meant the engine for a few seconds when it hits the sweet spot.

[weeksy]

I know a nice blue bike that'd make you giggle

I honestly don't think it would, you can't grasp how little I like riding sportsbikes these days, I just can't get on with them and make them go round a bend

I just meant the engine for a few seconds when it hits the sweet spot.

I think you have more belief in my ability than I do

[Yorick]

I honestly don't think it would, you can't grasp how little I like riding sportsbikes these days, I just can't get on with them and make them go round a bend

I just meant the engine for a few seconds when it hits the sweet spot.

I think you have more belief in my ability than I do

If the CB1000 had my engine in, you'd have bought it

[Dodgy69]

It seems to me, the later models with the newer headlight has a more retro thing going on. Looking on ebay at MY 15 and imo a much better looking bike, gas mask headlight.

I was at j and s Northwich ish a few years ago, talking to a lad who had one. At the time I thought it looked great and he absolutely loved it.

The update was 2018.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Looking on ebay at MY 15 and imo a much better looking bike, gas mask headlight.

Whereas I think exactly the opposite!

The old one did come in the HRC blue/white/red colurs with gold wheels though, I wish they'd do some variation of that for the latest version.

[Dodgy69]

2 o'clock photos always look best, ☝ thats 10 o'clock.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Can't see the SSSA properly but also can't see the dustbin exhaust. 50 50

[The Spin Doctor]

The main issue with the xsr and the mt it’s based on is the long forks and high front end. This made a bit worse as the xsr also has higher bars. Lower bars on the xsr would give more front end feel and the suspension would also help but you’ll never overcome the high front end. The CB is lower at the front but the main benefit is it’s a Honda and they always make very user friendly bikes, more so than any other maker. I really like that about them. Still I must try the CB and compare it to the Tuono

Funnily enough, I rode one in NZ and felt the front end was a problem. I seemed to be perched right over it and didn't really gel. I wonder if moving the rider back a few cms would make a difference.

[ajlog]

I tend to prefer the feel of instant response and high torque, my twins/single motorcycles feel better than most IL4s I've had - they're not actually better on paper, they just feel that way. The one thing that IL4s have is a lot of flexibility, they feel fairly flat lower down (even if they're not on paper) and then if you really want to shift you can put them higher in the rev range.

IMHO though because most people spend most of their time (on the road) in the lower ends of the rev range, they just end up feeling a bit flat.

I have been thinking about this lately and was reminded that back in the 80’s, 90’s when John Robinson wrote for PB he would often chart the thrust curves for bikes on test.
The thrust curve is a product of the combination of the power, revs, gearing that most closely represents the ‘feel’ of a bikes drive system.

Just doing a bit of a thinking about why some engine configurations feel more ‘torquey’ it could be down to the fact that typically an IL4 tuned for high HP figures makes a majority of the HP at high rpm.
Add tall gearing into the mix, and a bike that makes peak power at say 10,000rpm and redlines at 80mph in first at 12,000rpm can only access its full power at near max legal speeds.

While it may make 2x the power it needs revs to get there and at real world speeds in most gears the rider will only be able to access a fraction of that.
Whereas a ‘torquey’ twin will only have 1/2 the power but due to gearing and where in the rev range the power exists that bike will actually be a more ‘powerful’ one for speeds up to a certain point.

These PB thrust curves could show that as they charted the rear wheel thrust in each gear vs speed, they looked like this, often with the drag curve combined to show the theoretical top speed, he was a clever fellow was John Robinson.

[Yorick]

When I was leading the sighting laps, I often left it in top the whole lap.
Took all the hairpins no probs and then stomped away

[Mr. Dazzle]

These PB thrust curves could show that as they charted the rear wheel thrust in each gear vs speed, they looked like this, often with the drag curve combined to show the theoretical top speed

I remember those....I thought I'd imagined it, cause whenever I've looked in bike mags recently (not that often TBF) they didn't have them. ISTR it was standard practice in the oft repeated 600 shootout etc.

If I may beat the same old drum again: EVs will change all this. They'll give you maximum thrust across a huge speed range with no need to change gear.

[weeksy]

If I may beat the same old drum again: EVs will change all this. They'll give you maximum thrust across a huge speed range with no need to change gear.

LOL none of us will want or buy one.

[Mr. Dazzle]

If I may beat the same old drum again: EVs will change all this. They'll give you maximum thrust across a huge speed range with no need to change gear.

LOL none of us will want or buy one.

You probably didn't think you wanted a big naked Honda either...

[The Spin Doctor]

I have been thinking about this lately and was reminded that back in the 80’s, 90’s when John Robinson wrote for PB he would often chart the thrust curves for bikes on test.
The thrust curve is a product of the combination of the power, revs, gearing that most closely represents the ‘feel’ of a bikes drive system.

Thrust curves are by far and away the most useful thing to look at, for the reasons they set out - they give you an understanding of how the bike will feel, particularly when they are shown relating to road speed as well as revs - then you can see which gear works at what speed.

It is possible to design an inline four with torque in mind. My XJ6 has a motor re-tuned for just that. The torque curve is pretty flat, and combined with relatively low overall gearing - it hits the red line in top at just under 120 (GPS-corrected) MPH - it drives surprisingly well in the high gears which makes it a doddle to ride on the road. For a work bike, that's just what I want and need.

Frankly, a bike with this kind of engine characteristics makes far more sense for ordinary road use than a much more powerful, peaky bike like the R6 that donated the motor to the XJ.

[The Spin Doctor]

I remember those....I thought I'd imagined it, cause whenever I've looked in bike mags recently (not that often TBF) they didn't have them. ISTR it was standard practice in the oft repeated 600 shootout etc.

If I may beat the same old drum again: EVs will change all this. They'll give you maximum thrust across a huge speed range with no need to change gear.

I first saw them in Motorcycle Mechanics which morphed into Performing Berks.

But not seen one for a long time. Unfortunately, if the mags (or online articles) don't explain why thrust curves are so useful, no-one looks at them because they don't understand them. But give 'em a big BHP number and they get all excited.

As I've said before, how much faster can you accelerate than a wheelie? It's not huge power that makes for fun, it's the gearing.

Re the electric bikes. The race bikes have had to use gearboxes, simply because there's a limit to how fast an electric motor can spin. Interestingly Kawasaki have been testing an electric motor / four speed gearbox set up. If I remember right it was seen shoe-horned into a Ninja 400... yes, just checked... I talked about it on my Elevenses webcast on April 24 last year. The rationale is that it allows the use of a smaller and lighter electric motor.