How many of you have had professional coaching to improve your road riding

[The Spin Doctor]

Jesus H christ on a bike, from what Spin had said on various bits of this forum I was seriously thinking of doing one of his courses as I'd had a bit of a quiet spell motorcycle wise and thought I'd dip my toe in so to speak with the SOBS presentation to see if he was someone I could gel with, after which I intended to email him with a few suggestions but posted on here first with my overall view. Sorry if it offended you that someone with far less motorcycle experience can actually know about some of the issues you've highlighted without having done the legwork so to speak, don't get me wrong the content is great & lateral movement was one of the things I was going to mention but if you are really serious about saving bikers lives you need to pass this on to someone who can update it and present a slick video. Best wishes & not wishing to offend.

TBH I'm not sure what you expected to find out about my training from watching the SOBS presentation.

I'm not offended by constructive criticism, and my response is that I'd love to have it presented as a 'slick video' - the FortNine video on the topic is a good example of what could be achieved with time and resources.

However I have to be honest, and say that based on past experience I'm not keen on handing on my work to someone else. I've done that a couple of times and had original work I've done passed off as someone else's - notably, a series of cartoons that I researched and storyboarded, had the graphic artist's copyright slapped on them. This time I'm hanging onto it. If someone wants to come to me and create a video, fine... but twice burned...

[Potter]

You know when you said not all instructors get all ranty and talk down to people like they're inferior, you're very much moving into that camp.

At the moment I'd go as far as to say you're alienating more people than building customers with some of the stuff you're writing.

Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself.

[Horse]

the thing speaks for itself.

That's no way to talk about our wonderful site owner and manager

[The Spin Doctor]

You know when you said not all instructors get all ranty and talk down to people like they're inferior, you're very much moving into that camp.

At the moment I'd go as far as to say you're alienating more people than building customers with some of the stuff you're writing.

Res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself.

scientia non olet

[Potter]

I think if you turn up to these types of road training sessions, with these types of people, then you need to nod politely at everything and accept what you're told, then sort the wheat from the chaff yourself once you leave. If you challenge anything they say then you'll just be going home pissed off.

These 17 pages have demonstrated that better than any anecdote.

(edited to remove the bit about track tuition as it's not relevant)

[Horse]

I think if you turn up to these types of road training sessions, with these types of people, then you need to nod politely at everything and accept what you're told, then sort the (5%) wheat from the (95%) chaff yourself once you leave. If you challenge what they say and upset their ego then you'll just be going home pissed off.

AAMOI, what experience of 'these types' do you have beyond what you have read?

And how do you suggest someone decides which content falls across that 5/95 divide?

FWIW some (a few, granted, compared to other development) of the biggest changes to my training came from trainees who asked the classic "why?" question. If I couldn't justify it, didn't know, then it was necessary to find out.

Other changes have come from riders who didn't 'get' the usual explanations, it was necessary to go back to basics and ask myself 'why?' or 'how?'.

And a final FWIW. I have only (as far as I'm aware) had one trainee who didn't like me and my training - he wrote a 2 page letter to the dealer, complaining. But, I'd never met the guy, only spoken to his wife by phone (returning his enquiry, but he was in the garden and wouldn't come in). Found out later that, shortly after, he'd had a nervous breakdown.

[Potter]

And a final FWIW. I have only (as far as I'm aware) had one trainee who didn't like me and my training - he wrote a 2 page letter to the dealer, complaining. But, I'd never met the guy, only spoken to his wife by phone (returning his enquiry, but he was in the garden and wouldn't come in). Found out later that, shortly after, he'd had a nervous breakdown.

That doesn't surprise me, we've had 17 pages of you and Spin arguing that you're the last word on two wheels and anyone that doesn't agree is mental, why should that fella be any different.

Unlike you, I have nothing to prove, any prospective customers can read this thread and make their own minds up.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I for one would pay good money for Iccy's "figure it out for yourself and stop blaming other people" school of advanced motoring.

[weeksy]

I for one would pay good money for Iccy's "figure it out for yourself and stop blaming other people" school of advanced motoring.

Fit some crash bars, put them in an ice hockey style stadium with some road markings and say "Go for it, lets see"

[Horse]

And a final FWIW. I have only (as far as I'm aware) had one trainee who didn't like me and my training - he wrote a 2 page letter to the dealer, complaining. But, I'd never met the guy, only spoken to his wife by phone (returning his enquiry, but he was in the garden and wouldn't come in). Found out later that, shortly after, he'd had a nervous breakdown.

That doesn't surprise me, we've had 17 pages of you and Spin arguing that you're the last word on two wheels and anyone that doesn't agree is mental, why should that fella be any different.

Unlike you, I have nothing to prove, any prospective customers can read this thread and make their own minds up.

You may have nothing to prove, but you do seem to just want pile on insults.

And as I've said to you before, I don't have prospective customers because I don't have anything to sell.

[weeksy]

You may have nothing to prove, but you do seem to just want pile on insults.

As a moderator/Admin, i'm not seeing that. I'm seeing him/others disagreeing with the trainers. I'm not seeing insults.

I understand how you feel we're attacking you/Spin, because this is your job etc... However, the question was asked about trainers and the 'riding public' are simply answering why they think it's good/bad.

[Potter]

I for one would pay good money for Iccy's "figure it out for yourself and stop blaming other people" school of advanced motoring.

See that tree? Don't hit it.
And if you fall off don't whine.

That'll be £100 please.

[weeksy]

I for one would pay good money for Iccy's "figure it out for yourself and stop blaming other people" school of advanced motoring.

See that tree? Don't hit it.
And if you fall off don't whine.

That'll be £100 please.

What if the tree jumps out ?

[Potter]

You may have nothing to prove, but you do seem to just want pile on insults.

I'm not insulting you, although I'm conscious that at least one of you uses this stuff to pay bills, so I can see why you'd take it as an insult if I challenge it, which is why I stepped away at a point I thought it had gone far enough, but you both kept going with other people, even when they were trying to pass on what I thought was fair and honest feedback, so you both proved the very point that everyone else was making, which is that you're quite condescending and arrogant as instructors - like most are.

At the end of the day though it's just my opinion against yours, people don't have to take my word for it, they can just read the thread and make their own minds up.

[Potter]

What if the tree jumps out ?

It's your fault for not anticipating it and being in a position to avoid the wandering tree, it's voodoo magic.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I for one would pay good money for Iccy's "figure it out for yourself and stop blaming other people" school of advanced motoring.

See that tree? Don't hit it.
And if you fall off don't whine.

That'll be £100 please.

What if the tree jumps out ?

I genuinely had that happen to me in the car (it jumped from above though, AKA fell).

You claim on the tree's house insurance is the answer.

[Horse]

You may have nothing to prove, but you do seem to just want pile on insults.

As a moderator/Admin, i'm not seeing that. I'm seeing him/others disagreeing with the trainers. I'm not seeing insults.

Ok, fair enough. But I'm certainly not seeing anything helpful either.

eg

"95% chaff"
And
"17 pages of you and Spin arguing that you're the last word on two wheels and anyone that doesn't agree is mental"

[Potter]

You may have nothing to prove, but you do seem to just want pile on insults.

As a moderator/Admin, i'm not seeing that. I'm seeing him/others disagreeing with the trainers. I'm not seeing insults.

Ok, fair enough. But I'm certainly not seeing anything helpful either.

eg

"95% chaff"
And
"17 pages of you and Spin arguing that you're the last word on two wheels and anyone that doesn't agree is mental"

You've made yourselves look bad, don't be a victim and try and throw the blame on me now you've proved the point.

[Horse]

You may have nothing to prove, but you do seem to just want pile on insults.

but you both kept going with other people, even when they were trying to pass on what I thought was fair and honest feedback

You mean like the post where I congratulated Dickyboy on his knowledge?

[weeksy]

Ok, fair enough. But I'm certainly not seeing anything helpful either.

Why does it have to be though ? If Bigyin went to the Ritz and the cakes were shite, would he be wrong saying he didn't like them ? Or if this site were up and down 15 times a day would you lot be wrong in calling me out for it ? No....

You've given your opinion, people have disagreed with it based up what you've written in here and presented in an online thing, how can they be insulting you by disagreeing with what you've written/done.

It's not our job to help you if you're not providing a service that person XYZ wants.

If you were a dealer and being "oh we're right and you're wrong" well we as a forum would be up in arms saying the dealer is out of order. (As with Trinitys thread/posts).

Look at the abuse the bike builders get daily on here... i'm just hoping none of them ever find the forum or i'll likely have to implement a swear filter