How many of you have had professional coaching to improve your road riding

[Noggin]

This is kinda what some of my posts have been - I didn't have good instruction at test level. I learnt the vanishing point from the friend that I went out with. I learnt a lot more from him that in my Direct Access course

Sure, the instructors 'should' have taught me the basics. Yes there were quite a few things I 'should' have learnt in that week

But I did just learn to pass my test. The rest I learnt as I went along. Regardless of the posts saying I learnt the basics etc, IMO the basics were how to pass my test! I mist have had the bad or the ugly!! It was a long time ago though!

Fair enough... I wasn't there etc. I know what SHOULD be covered... and I know what may get skipped too. So fair enough sounds like you got some poor basic training. And when it happens, not only is the trainee short-changed, but the negative comments about training generally set the tone for the way people see post-test training as "more of the same"... which isn't necessarily true.

I totally get that you are saying what 'should' have been taught, but I do know what 'was/wasn't' taught!! LOL Albeit a long time ago and probably less 'managed' by DSA or whoever

However, as I've said often, this did not set a tone for me not to get more training - completely the opposite. I totally believe in further/advanced training BECAUSE I'm aware of how little I learnt in the Direct Access. And then I had a 6 year break because I broke my back and couldn't get a bike after I recovered (off work for a few months then a job change, so not possible to buy a bike!). Also, because of the track instruction I have had I can appreciate that I improve every time I've been out with an instructor. So, with a good road instructor, I know I will learn and at the very least, gain confidence in what I do

I am trying to put a positive look on advanced/further training!!

[Dickyboy]

I thought I'd watch the Spin Doctors SOBS presentation last night, partly to see if there is a lot of stuff I don't know which might spur me on to take some advanced training, turns out it didn't tell me much I wasn't already aware of. It did lead me down a YouTube rabbit hole of UK bike near misses & I've concluded that every helmet cam should come with free advanced tuition - absolutely shocking std of riding out there

[Horse]

the Spin Doctors SOBS presentation last night, partly to see if there is a lot of stuff I don't know ... turns out it didn't tell me much I wasn't already aware of.

That's because you have diligently absorbed everything posted here, on TRC and VD

[Supermofo]

I've concluded that every helmet cam should come with free advanced tuition

I've seen some really shocking riding on youtube where the rider deliberately puts themselves in a really shit situation just so they can go mad about it and moan. Nuts.

Bugger all point in being 'in the right' (as they perceive it) if you're on the floor in a screaming heap.

[Dickyboy]

That's because you have diligently absorbed everything posted here, on TRC and VD

Err don't even know what TRC is & don't think I've ever visited visor down, I did do my cbt in about 1983 if that helps?

[Horse]

That's because you have diligently absorbed everything posted here, on TRC and VD

Err don't even know what TRC is & don't think I've ever visited visor down, I did do my cbt in about 1983 if that helps?

In that case, congratulations! You are well educated in the ways of vision and conspicuity

[Whysub]

I've concluded that every helmet cam should come with free advanced tuition

I've seen some really shocking riding on youtube where the rider deliberately puts themselves in a really shit situation just so they can go mad about it and moan. Nuts.

Bugger all point in being 'in the right' (as they perceive it) if you're on the floor in a screaming heap.

Totally this, worse with cars though. Car pulls out, so rather than ease off, they accelerate then move towards the centre of the road before shouting and swearing. Pathetic wankers.

I've had a dash cam in my van then car for about 14 months. In that time I've driven to Spain and back to the UK three times, and a final drive to Spain, plus about 6,000 kms in and around Spain. Never seen anything worth saving to watch later.

[The Spin Doctor]

I thought I'd watch the Spin Doctors SOBS presentation last night, partly to see if there is a lot of stuff I don't know which might spur me on to take some advanced training, turns out it didn't tell me much I wasn't already aware of. It did lead me down a YouTube rabbit hole of UK bike near misses & I've concluded that every helmet cam should come with free advanced tuition - absolutely shocking std of riding out there

You must be one of the very few riders who already knew to look out for the collision with the oncoming vehicle turning right, rather than focus exclusively on the one emerging from the left then. Few riders know about that one being the killer crash. It's still a shocker to most people.

I've been raising the issues in SOBS for getting on for twenty years now, but must of what I was talking about - particularly around the ineffectiveness of hi-vis and DRLs - was greeted with considerable scepticism and disbelief. Motion camouflage and saccadic masking were unheard of. No-one considered that hi-vis only works if it's a contrasting colour. The idea that pink might be an effective hi-vis colour in rural areas was laughed at.

When I first created SOBS in 2012 much of the content was still controversial (SOBS predates the FortNine video on the same topic incidentally). But then we won an International road safety award for Biker Down, and Biker Down - including the SOBS presentation - was picked up by fire services nationwide over the next year or two. Even BikeSafe started talking about some of the issues four or five years ago - a complete change from the 'ride bright and be safe message' they were putting out ten years ago.

So if you already know the answers it shows the messages are getting across. So maybe there wasn't much you didn't know... but that is a GOOD thing, and now you know where to go if you want to dig deeper into the research and find out just why SOBS says what it does.

https://scienceofbeingseen.wordpress.com

[Dickyboy]

You must be one of the very few riders who already knew to look out for the collision with the oncoming vehicle turning right, rather than focus exclusively on the one emerging from the left then. Few riders know about that one being the killer crash. It's still a shocker to most people.

Had to pull my best mate out from under an 18t sainsburys truck after just such a crash so pretty much etched on my mind I'm afraid, he pulled through but the police preserved the scene in case he hadn't done so

Alot of the other stuff I've seen or read about over time, I was an active MAG member, taught cycle awareness at my kids school, cycled huge distances before I even got my first motorised bike at 18 and hate DRLs probably just as much as you.

The concept of Dazzle ships is over 100yrs old now, jesus even OMDs album of that name must be 40 odd years old now

[Cousin Jack]

The concept of Dazzle ships is over 100yrs old now, jesus even OMDs album of that name must be 40 odd years old now

And yet 'tribal' pattern and 'urban cammo' bike gear still exists.

[Yorick]

I remember some advice from the MCN about 1978, a year after my test.

It was summat like if your heading for an accident, jump off your bike.

Mick Grant said "if you stay on your bike, you might crash. If you jump off, you have crashed "

That advice saved my life, twice. Honestly.

[Horse]

I remember some advice from the MCN about 1978, a year after my test.

It was summat like if your heading for an accident, jump off your bike.

Mick Grant said "if you stay on your bike, you might crash. If you jump off, you have crashed "

That advice saved my life, twice. Honestly.

There's a whole load of biking myths. One of the best is "I had to lay the bike down to avoid a crash".

As far as the 'jump' goes, it's your last chance after all else has either failed or you don't even have time to try.

For racing, isn't the mangled little finger supposed to be a common result from try to hold on, but still crashing?

[Bigyin]

For racing, isn't the mangled little finger supposed to be a common result from try to hold on, but still crashing?

That's the "if i hold onto the bars i can get back on again"

On the subject of jumping off the best example i have ever seen apart from Vinales and his brake failure at the Reb Bull ring was a young British rider called Josh Wainwright in Bemsee when he first started in Superteen so was about 15 at the time and i was sector marshal in charge of the crew on corner at Druids.

Brands Hatch lap1 and he is in a full grid and unknown to him on a touch of bikes at Paddock his front brake lever is taken off. He arrives at Druids flat out on his RS125 and no brake so goes straight on

The gravel at druids is there to catch a bike or car that has gone wrong on turn in, not one that comes straight in at close to 80-90 mph so his bike skims straight over it towards the tyre wall.

I was stood behind the tyre wall as he came in so fast and then the bike smacked the tyre wall head on and i was convinced he was dead/serious injury but i then saw him in the air, fly over the tyre wall, cleared the banking and hit the mesh fencing above our heads behind us to stop car parts going into the crowd. He bounced back off the mesh, landed next to one of the other marshals who scooped him up in his arms and made sure he was ok.

Turns out Josh used to be a school boy gymnast and decided jumping off the footpegs upwards might save him an impact. Not a scratch on him but the bike was snapped in half and i went to the garage to check on him after racing. Was met by him, his brother, also racing and his dad. He was perfectly fine and pissed off the bike was a write off so couldnt ride the rst of the weekends races. Josh was still racing in the lower BSB support classes a year or 2 ago

[Horse]

When Threads Collide ...

In a demo video to show how effective airbags are, the stunt rider isn't waiting for impact, he's preparing to bail out.

20210711_083139.jpg (113.07 KiB) Viewed 362 times

[Horse]

To late to ...

Edit: there was a stunt rider interviewed and asked wasn't doing bike into car crashes dangerous? Apparently, no. "But you have to practice"

[The Spin Doctor]

You must be one of the very few riders who already knew to look out for the collision with the oncoming vehicle turning right, rather than focus exclusively on the one emerging from the left then. Few riders know about that one being the killer crash. It's still a shocker to most people.

Had to pull my best mate out from under an 18t sainsburys truck after just such a crash so pretty much etched on my mind I'm afraid, he pulled through but the police preserved the scene in case he hadn't done so

Alot of the other stuff I've seen or read about over time, I was an active MAG member, taught cycle awareness at my kids school, cycled huge distances before I even got my first motorised bike at 18 and hate DRLs probably just as much as you.

The concept of Dazzle ships is over 100yrs old now, jesus even OMDs album of that name must be 40 odd years old now

Sorry to hear about your mate.

As I make clear on the https://scienceofbeingseen.wordpress.com site, much of the research is decades old, practical understanding of camouflage techniques is a hundred years old, and some elements of visual perception have been known about since the 1500s.

But because YOU know, doesn't mean EVERYONE does.

The point I was making really is that SOBS is the FIRST place you'll see ALL the issues covered logically in the same place, and backed up with links to the research. A little credit for that would be nice

RIders still come to grief because no-one tells them about right-turning vehicles - it's one of the two urban killers. MAG regularly protested compulsion to use hi-vis and DRLs but had little substantive evidence - I've provided that with the project. And whilst dazzle ships aren't new to you (or me), few riders know about them or that their multi-coloured riding kit isn't 'conspicuous' but disruptive camouflage - the IAM group I had dealings with in the past were very pleased with their new multi-colour, multi-panel hi-vis vests until I pointed out that solid colours with sleeves are far more effective! In fact, in good light black would be a better option than random blocks of colour.

[The Spin Doctor]

When Threads Collide ...

In a demo video to show how effective airbags are, the stunt rider isn't waiting for impact, he's preparing to bail out.

In another promotional vid, the rider bails out into a raft of cardboard boxes rather than impact the ground!

[The Spin Doctor]

The concept of Dazzle ships is over 100yrs old now, jesus even OMDs album of that name must be 40 odd years old now

And yet 'tribal' pattern and 'urban cammo' bike gear still exists.

People choose to wear it, which is their choice and fine by me. I'm sure they don't think it's 'hi-vis'.

The problem is this kind of kit

multicolour hi vis.jpg (89.66 KiB) Viewed 338 times

Although it has bold blocks of colour, it actually manages to break up the silhouette!

The colours are brighter but it achieves the same 'hide the outline' effect as the 'Berlin Brigade' urban camouflage scheme developed during the cold war.

Berlin_camo_Landie_(cropped).jpg (240.96 KiB) Viewed 338 times

[Horse]

Although it has bold blocks of colour, it actually manages to break up the silhouette!

The colours are brighter but it achieves the same 'hide the outline' effect as the 'Berlin Brigade' urban camouflage scheme developed during the cold war.

Berlin_camo_Landie_(cropped).jpg

And they painted tanks in that pattern for urban camo. There was one at Duxford with a replica of the pattern.

Fun fact: every vehicle type was painted to the same pattern so Ruskie observers were less likely to be able to confirm 3 tanks passing by, or one tank going around the block three times.

[Dickyboy]

But because YOU know, doesn't mean EVERYONE does.

The point I was making really is that SOBS is the FIRST place you'll see ALL the issues covered logically in the same place, and backed up with links to the research. A little credit for that would be nice

Thought I'd made it clear that I signed up to it to see if I could learn anything, I certainly wasn't commenting about helpfulness to anyone else & your preample clearly shows you've received plenty of credit for your valiant efforts. To be honest I thought the SOBS presentation was great for highlighting the problems but quite short on serving up potential solutions, but hey that's just me a minow in the motorcycling world.