How many of you have had professional coaching to improve your road riding

[Horse]

1) go in a bit slower than usual so you have some attention to spare. Try to keep the bike on the same line right through a bend. Start middle of the lane.

This is a good test of entry speed choice when using 'lines', especially on a blind right hander.

Try to ride and remain parallel to the edge of the road. It will highlight when travelling too fast and the instances when you would want to turn in, rather than when the view supports it.

[Horse]

I was cornering smoother, more confidently and more calmly than before. The day made me enjoy riding more than ever before.

Say that again and I'll sue. We trainers have a bad reputation to maintain!

I hope you don't mind being quoted, but your parting comment at the end of the day was: "I've realised that I can't just arrive at corners and deal with them, i need to plan for them."

[Cousin Jack]

Bloody Hell! This internet thing is a PITA.

First it is Spin quoting me, now it is Horse quoting Beancounter. It is a bloody good job I don't do Facebook/Twitter et al.

[Bigyin]

Once we got to the car park Diablo persuaded me to have a go at the practice drills - walking the upright bike in a circle then doing the same but with the bike leaning slightly into the turn to see just how much tighter you can turn with just a little bit of lean, but the real helpful bit for me was the “pointing your chin to where you want to go” as even in the car park I was cornering smoother, more confidently and more calmly than before. The day made me enjoy riding more than ever before.

I must be doing something right as i make a big deal of this on CBT ..... i have an onboard video of Jonny Rea in wet race from Magny Cours from a camera mounted on the dash looking back at him with a clear visor. Superb example of " look where you want to go"

[Horse]

Once we got to the car park Diablo persuaded me to have a go at the practice drills - walking the upright bike in a circle then doing the same but with the bike leaning slightly into the turn to see just how much tighter you can turn with just a little bit of lean, but the real helpful bit for me was the “pointing your chin to where you want to go” as even in the car park I was cornering smoother, more confidently and more calmly than before. The day made me enjoy riding more than ever before.

I must be doing something right as i make a big deal of this on CBT ..... i have an onboard video of Jonny Rea in wet race from Magny Cours from a camera mounted on the dash looking back at him with a clear visor. Superb example of " look where you want to go"

From waaaay before the technology to show that, I had a magazine photo of Jamie Whitham demonstrating what was described as his 'chin in the weeds' riding style.

[Horse]

Bloody Hell! This internet thing is a PITA.

First it is Spin quoting me, now it is Horse quoting Beancounter.

It shows the level of desperation that we have sunk to

[The Spin Doctor]

I was cornering smoother, more confidently and more calmly than before. The day made me enjoy riding more than ever before.

Say that again and I'll sue. We trainers have a bad reputation to maintain!

LOL LOL

I hope you don't mind being quoted, but your parting comment at the end of the day was: "I've realised that I can't just arrive at corners and deal with them, i need to plan for them."

Almost word-for-word what I was saying during last night's online briefing for this evening's on-road session!

[weeksy]

I hope you don't mind being quoted, but your parting comment at the end of the day was: "I've realised that I can't just arrive at corners and deal with them, i need to plan for them."

Says who ? More so than in a car ? or even on a bicycle ?

That's all just part of reading a road.

That's like saying "i can't just arrive at a set of stairs and expect to deal with them" well, you do... you arrive at them, then put one foot higher than the other each time, you get up the stairs.

Corners are no different, you don't arrive at them all at 130mph... you read the road and you go round the corner.

What's the difference between planning and reading a road ? You can't plan 5 corners ahead... because you can only see so far ahead of you (on most roads)

[The Spin Doctor]

That's like saying "i can't just arrive at a set of stairs and expect to deal with them" well, you do... you arrive at them, then put one foot higher than the other each time, you get up the stairs.

Corners are no different, you don't arrive at them all at 130mph... you read the road and you go round the corner.

What's the difference between planning and reading a road ? You can't plan 5 corners ahead... because you can only see so far ahead of you (on most roads)

Reading the road IS planning.

Just as looking at the height of a set of steps, how narrow the steps are, how steeply angled they are and whether they are slippery or covered with a loose-fitting stair runner will give you a big hint about whether or not to hang onto the rail.

If you're not 'reading the road', your observation and planning broke down.

And if you trip up on a set of stairs and tear an ankle ligament (me, ten years ago) then the same applies - I hadn't noticed that the steps were a little uneven in height.

[weeksy]

That's like saying "i can't just arrive at a set of stairs and expect to deal with them" well, you do... you arrive at them, then put one foot higher than the other each time, you get up the stairs.

Corners are no different, you don't arrive at them all at 130mph... you read the road and you go round the corner.

What's the difference between planning and reading a road ? You can't plan 5 corners ahead... because you can only see so far ahead of you (on most roads)

Reading the road IS planning.

Just as looking at the height of a set of steps, how narrow the steps are, how steeply angled they are and whether they are slippery or covered with a loose-fitting stair runner will give you a big hint

So what you're saying is..

To ride a motorbike you need to look at the road ahead and decide how fast to go ?

[The Spin Doctor]

So what you're saying is..

To ride a motorbike you need to look at the road ahead and decide how fast to go ?

No.

You look at the road ahead and decide how slow you should go.

There's a difference.

And of course, there are plenty of riders who don't achieve that successfully. If they did, we wouldn't have around 50% of all biking fatalities happening on bends, would we?

[weeksy]

You look at the road ahead and decide how slow you should go.

There's a difference.

And of course, there are plenty of riders who don't achieve that successfully. If they did, we wouldn't have around 50% of all biking fatalities happening on bends, would we?

LOL sure mate.

[Beancounter]

I have an issue on right handlers, I don’t like being close to the verge, so I make an extra effort to get comfortable but it actually makes my riding rough and clunky and I’m not enjoying it.

Tip that might help... if you can find a short loop of bends, it's even better. 1) go in a bit slower than usual so you have some attention to spare. Try to keep the bike on the same line right through a bend. Start middle of the lane. Notice where your left / right mirrors are - if you can keep them same position with respect to the centre line / verge on both left / right sides, you're in the middle of the lane! 2) try the same shuffling half a metre to the left - the mirrors will have moved with respect to the centre line and verge, but try to keep the same relative position all the way through the bend. 3) repeat but another half metre to the left.

It'll feel weird to start with (and some riders say "it's distracting" but that's why we're riding a bit slower) but after a bit it becomes something we do in peripheral vision. It's how I recalibrate for riding on the wrong side of the road after a break from visiting the continent.

Thanks, Happy to give that a try and report back.

I was cornering smoother, more confidently and more calmly than before. The day made me enjoy riding more than ever before.

Say that again and I'll sue. We trainers have a bad reputation to maintain!

I hope you don't mind being quoted, but your parting comment at the end of the day was: "I've realised that I can't just arrive at corners and deal with them, i need to plan for them."

Happy to be quoted.

Once we got to the car park Diablo persuaded me to have a go at the practice drills - walking the upright bike in a circle then doing the same but with the bike leaning slightly into the turn to see just how much tighter you can turn with just a little bit of lean, but the real helpful bit for me was the “pointing your chin to where you want to go” as even in the car park I was cornering smoother, more confidently and more calmly than before. The day made me enjoy riding more than ever before.

I must be doing something right as i make a big deal of this on CBT ..... i have an onboard video of Jonny Rea in wet race from Magny Cours from a camera mounted on the dash looking back at him with a clear visor. Superb example of " look where you want to go"

When my missus went to do a refresher day with the same CBT instructor she happened to mention that I'd been "banging on" about vanishing point and pointing her chin in the direction she needs to go, her instructor was very dismissive and said she didn't need to know any of that at her level.

[Hot_Air]

When my missus went to do a refresher day with the same CBT instructor she happened to mention that I'd been "banging on" about vanishing point and pointing her chin in the direction she needs to go, her instructor was very dismissive and said she didn't need to know any of that at her level.

It doesn't matter whether it's CBT, DAS or IAM; there are the good, the bad and the ugly instructors. (I'm not saying who's ugly )

IMO, it's an essential and basic riding skill to point your chin (or at least look) in the direction you need to go. And why is the vanishing point not even mentioned in the Riding: the Essential Skills book?

[Horse]

"I've realised that I can't just arrive at corners and deal with them, i need to plan for them."

Says who ?

Beancounter said it.

But I'll take a guess at what he meant The alternative (at least, to what we covered during the day) might include:
- braking late, into the corner (no, not trail braking, or comfort braking)
- having to change gear mid-bend
- not using the throttle to balance the bike and drive through
- not looking through the bend

[weeksy]

"I've realised that I can't just arrive at corners and deal with them, i need to plan for them."

Says who ?

Beancounter said it.

But I'll take a guess at what he meant The alternative (at least, to what we covered during the day) might include:
- braking late, into the corner (no, not trail braking, or comfort braking)
- having to change gear mid-bend
- not using the throttle to balance the bike and drive through
- not looking through the bend

I've moved on fella, I should never have posted.

[Horse]

I'm not even slightly surprised to find out that you started on old mans bikes

And I'm not in the least surprised by your attitude.

I think he was fishing and he got a little nibble

I didn't bother listing my bikes. First BMW (and catheter) aged 23

[Horse]

Says who ?

Beancounter said it.

But I'll take a guess at what he meant The alternative (at least, to what we covered during the day) might include:
- braking late, into the corner (no, not trail braking, or comfort braking)
- having to change gear mid-bend
- not using the throttle to balance the bike and drive through
- not looking through the bend

I've moved on fella, I should never have posted.

Ok, no worries.

But I hope that, when moving forward, you're pointing your chin

[Yorick]

I think what pisses off the average rider, is the experts giving their opinion without bring asked.

I never give track advice unless asked.

[Horse]

I get asked why I want to join RoSPA.... then he says “What about being safer?”;

You can't teach or learn 'being safer', however it's worded. That really only comes from doing other stuff.

For example: cornering speed. Simplistically, change nothing else, go slower = safer. But slower than 'what' speed?

Improve your braking performance and reaction time, then you might be 'safer' at the same speed should you have to stop.

Use the throttle well Vs trailing throttle at the same speed. One is 'safer' because the bike is probably more balanced.

If the bike grounds mid-corner, knowing to lean in could get you around - but closing the throttle could lose more ground clearance.


So next time you're asked that, suggest that by going out for a ride you have actually increased exposure to risk so potentially reduced your safety