Covid restrictions - are you adhering or not?

[gremlin]

The issue, and one the gov will be terrified of, with letting it run wild is that it will produce a lot more mutations. One of which could cause an issue.

This has already happened with the UK variant.

As far as I know the medics have still not determined whether or not vaccinated bods can still spread the Covid virus. Letting go of the restrictions, some of which are not exactly onerous, is going to lead to the spread of the virus throughout the population. And letting people travel will only exacerbate the situation.

So yes, I think Bozo is being a complete idiot and has already been said abrogating his responsibility to protect the population.

Still, when it all goes tits up at least we'll know how to blame.

Sorry, but I'm with Bozza. Gotta crack on with life.

[Mr. Dazzle]

he's letting you decide.

Terrible idea

I have to say, post July 19th very little will change for me anyway. I can't see how Bozza can do much else now though, the path has been laid out and he's gotta follow it.

[cheb]

Do I blame Johnson or Sturgeon for this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57667163

Warning: Contains football fans.

[Horse]

As far as I know the medics have still not determined whether or not vaccinated bods can still spread the Covid virus.

If they can still catch it, be hospitalised and die (although in far fewer numbers), it's quite likely that they can spread it too.

[Mussels]

Do I blame Johnson or Sturgeon for this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57667163

Warning: Contains football fans.

Dunno but it's great fuel to call Sturgeon a hypocrite when she moans about anyone English going to Scotland and spreading the disease.

[cheb]

I'll confess to the tiniest bit of Schadenfreude recently. A very Scottish mate (SNP always right, Westminster always wrong) was recently prevented from travelling down to Manchester to see his girlfriend by Sturgeon's edict. Mumbleswerve, mumbleswerve.

[Greenman]

About a month after the 19th July is my bet, as they will use the freedom they are allowing us 'allowing us' to attend festivals etc and will then use that freedom to say it is our fault we are now having to lock back down.

It's standard policy for any political party, pass blame onto those who cannot fight back!

The government are going to relax their rules and put the responsibility of being sensible back into your hands -

So basically what you are saying is we have to stay in forever, never see anyone and ultimately have no life at all, right?

I don't know why you cant see that this is never going to go away. There is never going to be an announcement from Boris saying "right you bunch of c.unts, on sep 23rd covid will no longer be around as his mum told me he has to go back to china for good" - just like the cold and flu we have to learn to live with it and take responsibilities for your own health.

As a collective nation we cannot continue isolating and putting totalitarian covid rules in place as blanket policies. The people who do not need to isolate or feel they are at low risk of getting covid can then live their lives, the majority are in this group! - this is the responsibilty of the government, right? no?

No longer should the young fit and healthy be held back to protect the old and frail. I say this from a viewpoint that my parents are in the super high risk catagory, they need to continue to be careful and isolate where needed, just like they take precautions with flu and cold bugs via vaccines etc, they don't expect everyone else to do the same!

[Greenman]

This has already happened with the UK variant.

As far as I know the medics have still not determined whether or not vaccinated bods can still spread the Covid virus. Letting go of the restrictions, some of which are not exactly onerous, is going to lead to the spread of the virus throughout the population. And letting people travel will only exacerbate the situation.

So yes, I think Bozo is being a complete idiot and has already been said abrogating his responsibility to protect the population.

Still, when it all goes tits up at least we'll know how to blame.

He's not making it compulsory to spread covid, he's letting you decide.

But do you honestly think the majority of the people here will make an 'informed decision' based on fact?

Doubtful.

Most will see it as a way to freedom, and long may they continue being free.

The ones that don't like that can just continue isoalting for the rest of your lives, us free people couldn't give a shit, have a crap life, who cares!

The covid divide within society prevails!

[gremlin]

This woman is having a moan up about the lack of masks coming in as she's super-vulnerable:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57643063

"Rosie says she is now planning to cancel trips and events she had planned. "I've got a theatre trip booked but there's no way I'm going to be sitting in a theatre next to people who are not wearing masks," she says."

Well, that's called personal choice. And surely it's my choice to be able to sit in a theatre without a mask? A can only presume Rosie isn't going out until all traffic has been halted less she get hit by a bus.

[Horse]

The government are going to relax their rules and put the responsibility of being sensible back into your hands

you are saying is we have to stay in forever, never see anyone

Were you reading something different, because that's not what I understood from that?

[weeksy]

Well, that's called personal choice. And surely it's my choice to be able to sit in a theatre without a mask?

Arguably a little selfish. I'm happy to wear a mask in places if it means people like Rosie get to join in.

[Greenman]

The government are going to relax their rules and put the responsibility of being sensible back into your hands

you are saying is we have to stay in forever, never see anyone

Were you reading something different, because that's not what I understood from that?

Maybe i should of quoted his entire post. go read it

[weeksy]

you are saying is we have to stay in forever, never see anyone

Were you reading something different, because that's not what I understood from that?

Maybe i should of quoted his entire post. go read it

lol you're still a bit 'rabid pitbull'...

Chill the fuck fella it's a nice place... lets not get all tetchy.

[wheelnut]

This has already happened with the UK variant.

As far as I know the medics have still not determined whether or not vaccinated bods can still spread the Covid virus. Letting go of the restrictions, some of which are not exactly onerous, is going to lead to the spread of the virus throughout the population. And letting people travel will only exacerbate the situation.

So yes, I think Bozo is being a complete idiot and has already been said abrogating his responsibility to protect the population.

Still, when it all goes tits up at least we'll know how to blame.

Covid isn't going away. Ever. How long do we lock ourselves away for? We really need to rely on the vaccinations and get on with life.

[Supermofo]

Thought this was an interesting read this morning. Glad I'm not making the decisions.

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/lond ... e-unknown/

Amongst it I thought these parts interesting

Four rejected options: Playbook is told that in lengthy discussions between the PM, Cabinet ministers and the government’s scientific advisers, the question was repeatedly asked of what alternative options were available other than unlocking on July 19. As Johnson suggested yesterday — and as Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty and Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance did not contest — delaying “Freedom Day” by a month or two was seen as ineffective because, with the country already largely unlocked, cases would continue to rise anyway, and could then spike further when children go back to school in September. Delaying to later in the year was a nonstarter because the virus transmits more easily indoors and the pressure on the NHS is worse in winter. Proceeding with the July 19 date but with some restrictions remaining in place was also seen as ineffective because, at the current level of prevalence, minor measures would do little to prevent the spread of the virus. The only other option was to implement harsher lockdown-style measures again now, which was seen as unjustifiable as the vast majority of the most vulnerable people now have double-jab protection.

What do the experts say? Worryingly for Johnson if this does all go wrong, his SAGE body of government experts will be able to say they warned him. In a paper published yesterday, SAGE cautioned “there is significant risk in allowing prevalence to rise” because, if a new variant emerges that is more dangerous and needs to be eliminated, lockdown measures “would be required for much longer.” This is the gamble the government is taking: letting the virus run riot could increase the chances of a new potentially more dangerous variant coming along, which may then be harder to identify and to get under control.

Leap of faith: A minister last night told Playbook: “Everyone in government knows this is an incredibly difficult decision to take. Don’t listen to the stuff about Big Bangs and Freedom Day, I think this was a very balanced decision. None of the science is able to say if some terrible new variant will emerge. We can’t just live in lockdown waiting for one to come. On balance, with where we are with the vaccination program, with the incredible broken link between cases and deaths, yes it’s a bit of a leap into the unknown, but we absolutely have to go for it.”

Say it: A senior Tory MP last night went where no one in government dares, using those dreaded words: “h*rd imm*nity.” They told Playbook in quite stark terms that, with the Pfizer vaccine just 64 percent effective at preventing infection with the Delta variant, and with many younger adults not yet having double jab protection, the virus will continue to spread through the population at a rapid rate, particularly among younger people. The MP said: “They are effectively going for dual herd immunity now via vaccination and infection. If in a couple of months everyone has either had two jabs or caught the Delta variant, so long as no especially evil Epsilon variant emerges, cases will come back down and we can all move on.” Oh boy.

[gremlin]

Well, that's called personal choice. And surely it's my choice to be able to sit in a theatre without a mask?

Arguably a little selfish. I'm happy to wear a mask in places if it means people like Rosie get to join in.

Maybe, but Rosie has made her own choices on how she lives her life. In the article she says hasn't seen her family since 2019. That's more than a mask issue, that, to me, sounds like Rosie is shit scared to go out and has decided she wants to spend the rest of her life living in fear of an invisible foe. I assume she was fine with 'flu, Lyme disease, tetanus, et. al, prior to the pandemic?
For decades there will be people living in fear of catching covid, missing out on life at their own behest, thinking they're going to keel over and die if a stranger looks at them from across the street. Why should the sensible, rational majority have to compromise because of their irrational fears?
This isn't going away. It's not risk free, but what in life is risk free? The minute you're born you face the risk of death, but we learn to balance risk vs. reward in terms of being sensible, enjoying life, taking the odd risk, knowing things may harm you, versus the long, dull life you may risk by always taking the safe option.

[wheelnut]

Thought this was an interesting read this morning. Glad I'm not making the decisions.

https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/lond ... e-unknown/

Amongst it I thought these parts interesting

Four rejected options: Playbook is told that in lengthy discussions between the PM, Cabinet ministers and the government’s scientific advisers, the question was repeatedly asked of what alternative options were available other than unlocking on July 19. As Johnson suggested yesterday — and as Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty and Chief Scientific Adviser Patrick Vallance did not contest — delaying “Freedom Day” by a month or two was seen as ineffective because, with the country already largely unlocked, cases would continue to rise anyway, and could then spike further when children go back to school in September. Delaying to later in the year was a nonstarter because the virus transmits more easily indoors and the pressure on the NHS is worse in winter. Proceeding with the July 19 date but with some restrictions remaining in place was also seen as ineffective because, at the current level of prevalence, minor measures would do little to prevent the spread of the virus. The only other option was to implement harsher lockdown-style measures again now, which was seen as unjustifiable as the vast majority of the most vulnerable people now have double-jab protection.

What do the experts say? Worryingly for Johnson if this does all go wrong, his SAGE body of government experts will be able to say they warned him. In a paper published yesterday, SAGE cautioned “there is significant risk in allowing prevalence to rise” because, if a new variant emerges that is more dangerous and needs to be eliminated, lockdown measures “would be required for much longer.” This is the gamble the government is taking: letting the virus run riot could increase the chances of a new potentially more dangerous variant coming along, which may then be harder to identify and to get under control.

Leap of faith: A minister last night told Playbook: “Everyone in government knows this is an incredibly difficult decision to take. Don’t listen to the stuff about Big Bangs and Freedom Day, I think this was a very balanced decision. None of the science is able to say if some terrible new variant will emerge. We can’t just live in lockdown waiting for one to come. On balance, with where we are with the vaccination program, with the incredible broken link between cases and deaths, yes it’s a bit of a leap into the unknown, but we absolutely have to go for it.”

Say it: A senior Tory MP last night went where no one in government dares, using those dreaded words: “h*rd imm*nity.” They told Playbook in quite stark terms that, with the Pfizer vaccine just 64 percent effective at preventing infection with the Delta variant, and with many younger adults not yet having double jab protection, the virus will continue to spread through the population at a rapid rate, particularly among younger people. The MP said: “They are effectively going for dual herd immunity now via vaccination and infection. If in a couple of months everyone has either had two jabs or caught the Delta variant, so long as no especially evil Epsilon variant emerges, cases will come back down and we can all move on.” Oh boy.

Sums up where we are nicely.

[wheelnut]

About a month after the 19th July is my bet, as they will use the freedom they are allowing us 'allowing us' to attend festivals etc and will then use that freedom to say it is our fault we are now having to lock back down.

It's standard policy for any political party, pass blame onto those who cannot fight back!

You seem a little mixed up with what you're implying there - are you saying that the government should lock us down now?

[DefTrap]

No, what I’m saying is it’s soon going to be up to you how much you spread it around, or not, so the results will be entirely down to your actions and you won’t be able to blame the government.

Which inevitably means that infections and deaths will remain too high for a return to normality for some considerable time.
So whilst this might save some businesses, it still means that things like international travel will be fubared.

So, yes I do blame the government. We have speed limits which are enforced, we can't just make it up as we go along with impunity. Why is this different?

[Mussels]

Well, that's called personal choice. And surely it's my choice to be able to sit in a theatre without a mask?

Arguably a little selfish. I'm happy to wear a mask in places if it means people like Rosie get to join in.

2 of the 3 arguing to end restrictions so they can sit in overcrowded germ infested spaces and think it is acceptable to demand others stay permanently isolated if they want to live, I have no sympathy for them. Mr Radcliffe wants to get home and I do have sympathy there, not a nice position to be in.
Rosie can stick her theatre seat up her arse, she has no right to exclude others for her entertainment.

There seem to be many selfish arguments around now dressed up as being the greater good, however I am of the view that the current limbo needs to end. It may be that punters vote with their feet and put a lot of dives out of business or it may be the government makes more permanent restrictions on venues, or we might find that nothing changes and it's all ok.