Should we be eradicating the past ?

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weeksy
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Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by weeksy »

This world, well it confuses me, things like Gone with the Wind, Little Britain, now Fawlty Towers, all being removed, along with Bayden Powell, the scout founder.

Surely by removing it we're in danger of removing the message for the future ? Shouldn't things be kept active as they're part of our history ? Part of our progression in the world ? Otherwise we're in danger of future generations not knowing the lessons ?

Is it just me or is this world in which we live getting more and more bonkers by the day ?
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by cheb »

The world has always been illogical, and probably will be until we evolve Human OS v2.0.

This was published in 1841: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordi ... _of_Crowds
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by hilldweller »

Without doubt it's getting crazier by the minute, the CV debacle shows this up brilliantly.

The huge problem with humans is we just don't learn from the past. 1914 we have a war to end all wars, so naturally 1939 we repeat this.

The slavers and many other nasties, it happened, nothing can change that, if anything needs changing surely a full explanation on the statue is by far the way to go.

I wonder how the Germans handle their efforts in the last war.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by hilldweller »

cheb wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:15 am The world has always been illogical, and probably will be until we evolve Human OS v2.0.

This was published in 1841: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordi ... _of_Crowds
And those crowds did not have the benefit of instant global communications to fuel them.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by MrLongbeard »

Totally bonkers time we live in, I struggle and oft fail to get my head round it most of the time.

For sure there are groups who have been / are being repressed who have genuine grievances, but to demand the removal of statues such as Baden Powell because he agreed with parts of Mein Kampf, and Robert Peel because of what his dear old dad did gets right under my skin.

Those in power will obvs fold like a cheap wet house of cards and meet all the OTT demands of pressure groups eventually.

Personally it's a step backwards for their cause, up until this all kicked off I couldn't give a toss about the colour, race or religion of a person, now I'm being told it's my fault, I have white privilege, I should feel guilty even though I've done nothing except give everyone a fair lick, well for me they can all jolly well jog on.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Tomcat »

Except we're not entirely eradicating it are we? Most of what is happening is actually telling the other side of stories that were long hushed up, the slave trade for one single example among many. Some of these monuments were long overdue removal from their places of honour and relocation to museums where their full story could be told and understood. I'm informed the Fawlty Towers episode contained references to "pakis" that the BBC had edited out of its version of the show but UKTV was still showing the unedited version. Inappropriate? Plenty of statues have come down - Saddam, Hitler, etc, do we complain about these and claim history is being eradicated? I'm keen that we don't lose the middle ground on this by going too far too fast, because it's a conversation that has long needed to be had, but we need to be a bit careful of virtue signalling for its own benefit and when we do take action the reasons need to be clear to all, if only to justify the action and keep support.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Tomcat »

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:51 am up until this all kicked off I couldn't give a toss about the colour, race or religion of a person, now I'm being told it's my fault, I have white privilege, I should feel guilty even though I've done nothing except give everyone a fair lick, well for me they can all jolly well jog on.
That's because you haven't stopped to understand what white privilege actually is. In a nutshell, however hard you've had it, however much you've tried to do the right thing, you still exist in the privileged position of being white, where the colour of your skin is not an inherent barrier to getting on in life, where you are not several times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police, where many employers are still more likely to respond to CVs with "English" names than ethnic ones. And more. White privilege isn't anything you're doing wrong or something to feel personally guilty about, if you give everybody a fair lick you're doing something to eliminate it. But it's something we need to recognise exists, because until we do, how do we actually get the equal, non racist society that most of agree we should have?
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by weeksy »

Tomcat wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:07 pm because until we do, how do we actually get the equal, non racist society that most of agree we should have?
Is that viable though ? Ever ? Be it racism through colour of skin, hair colour, left/right handed people, people from Australia being Crims, people from Southern parts of America being country bumpkins ? Surely in some ways there will always be 'us and them' but in different ways ?
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by MingtheMerciless »

It's going too far I think at moment, and it will end up driving people into the arms of the extremists at both ends of the spectrum.

I very much disagree with mob rule removal of statues, it's then not too far from a bunch of people stringing up someone from a tree.

Churchill was very anti trades union and anti giving up the remnants of Empire but without him we could very well have a Swastika flying over Buckingham Palace (I know its all ifs/buts and maybes). The same goes for a lot of historical figures that are now statues, at the time they saved the country and/or made it what it is today but their other actions may well be abhorrent today but were the norm at the time. So I say keep most of the statues but maybe another plaque underneath detailing the darker side.

The whole statue removal thing also seems to have overtaken the racist society/culture problems which surely needs addressing before we start removing lumps of bronze and stone.

But I write this from the possibly biased view of a white, middle aged, well paid males position.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by weeksy »

MingtheMerciless wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:20 pm But I write this from the possibly biased view of a white, middle aged, well paid males position.
That's one of the great things about forums.... you could be, or you could be a black man, an asian man, chinaman or a 12 year old girl. Forums like this remove the race card as unless you've met people, you have no clue who they are other than what they write.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by MrLongbeard »

Tomcat wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:07 pm
MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:51 am up until this all kicked off I couldn't give a toss about the colour, race or religion of a person, now I'm being told it's my fault, I have white privilege, I should feel guilty even though I've done nothing except give everyone a fair lick, well for me they can all jolly well jog on.
That's because you haven't stopped to understand what white privilege actually is. In a nutshell, however hard you've had it, however much you've tried to do the right thing, you still exist in the privileged position of being white, where the colour of your skin is not an inherent barrier to getting on in life, where you are not several times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police, where many employers are still more likely to respond to CVs with "English" names than ethnic ones. And more. White privilege isn't anything you're doing wrong or something to feel personally guilty about, if you give everybody a fair lick you're doing something to eliminate it. But it's something we need to recognise exists, because until we do, how do we actually get the equal, non racist society that most of agree we should have?
Maybe, I do know of several occasions where the colour of my skin did hold me back, back in the 90's I didn't get a look in for council jobs I applied for as they had ethnic numbers to meet. And yes they did actually tell me that at the end of the one interview I attended.

Perhaps I don't understand the colour of skin being a barrier to success in this country because I work in an environment (and have done so for 20+ years) surrounded by successful blacks, Asians and others, my probably overly simplified thought is if they can do it then so can anyone.
My first boss when I was a nipper paper boy was Asian, my last but one boss was Asian.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Horse »

MrLongbeard wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:31 pm
Perhaps I don't understand the colour of skin being a barrier to success in this country because I work in an environment (and have done so for 20+ years) surrounded by successful blacks, Asians and others, my probably overly simplified thought is if they can do it then so can anyone.
My first boss when I was a nipper paper boy was Asian, my last but one boss was Asian.
Similar with sexism.

After a couple of years at my first job, early 80s, I ended up with a female team leader. Another member of staff actually said to me "I couldn't work for a woman." It's never bothered me. A few years ago I had a female line manager, female group leader, female divisional director and female CEO!
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Julian_Boolean »

I'm not going to comment on Racism as it's a bag of worms that doesn't opening in this forum, I'll leave that to the angry warriors on the Rev Counter, but should the past be eradicated, in short no, because how can you learn from something if you erase it from history?

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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Nordboy »

In a few years (or sooner) I'm sure there'll be someone protesting and complaining that white people have removed said statues etc because they're trying to cover it all up and pretend it didn't happen!!!

The UK/ World is an increasingly confusing place to live. I'm so confused, I'm not even sure what I think about all these things anymore??
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by moth »

I don't often agree with the current PM, but he does have a point here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... orge-floyd
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Dodgy knees »

I'm going along with Boris and gonna live in my own little bubble. It's a small place, but a happy place and there's no demonstration and all that shite. 👍
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Bike Breaker »

I'm beginning to think that today we're supposed to judge historic people only on their perceived worst action or characteristic, not necessarily restricted to criminal acts at that time. I appreciate that erecting statues is out of date but there would be a lot of commemoration/respect/appreciation of people being 'thrown in the drink' if it were used for everyone who transgresses at some time in their life yet has good qualities, too.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Gimlet »

You can't eradicate the past. You can misrepresent it. You can fail to understand it or to see it in context. You can be in denial about it but you can't wish it away, or as Boris Johnson said, edit it, to redact the bits you don't like.
Anyone who thinks they can is either intellectually dishonest, or, as in the case of the BLM demonstrators, plain thick.

It is what it is. It's the chronological road map charting how we arrived at where we find ourselves now. Without it, or with a falsified version of it, we'd be adrift and living in a false reality. Those who try and rewrite history are invariably selling a false reality and their motives should be viewed accordingly. BLM is just the trendy, down-with-the(stupid)-kids offshoot of the fascistic dystopian neo-Marxism pushed by ANTIFA and the Black Panthers and doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. It's a bullshit creed that will itself pass into history, but unlike the real historical figures it's trying to erase, it will be ridiculed rather than commemorated.
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Buckaroo »

It's always going to be difficult to apply the lens through which we see and judge the world today on an event or individual from the past.
What was acceptable then isn't now. How will we be judged in another 100 years?
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Re: Should we be eradicating the past ?

Post by Bigjawa »

I'm originally from Belfast, we don't forget the past here, we revel in it, make a ton of money out of it, but conveniently leave out the really gory or evil stuff. FFS we have a whole section of our tourism industry dedicated to an event that killed 1500 people.

Personally I think life is too fleeting to spend too much time looking at the past, what's here and now is more important, we need to look at what we are leaving to our kids and grandkids.
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