1000 miles as a beginner

[Yorick]

I first heard of counter steering on VD.
I'd managed 24 years riding and 10 years racing without being aware of it.

You do it by instinct. Don't need potty training.

[tricol]

Well yes, because if you try to steer as you think you should the bike just wants to sit up all the time. But I just thought the mention of the principle would have helped.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Some people counter steer all on their own, some don't I reckon.

Personally whenever I actively try and do it I get in a right old muddle, but if I put the heels of my hands on the bars (i.e. so I can only push on them) I can ride perfectly normally. Therefore I've come to the conclusion that I do it naturally and always have, trying to force it just achieves nothing for me.

If you don't do it naturally - well, now you know how

[Yorick]

Well yes, because if you try to steer as you think you should the bike just wants to sit up all the time. But I just thought the mention of the principle would have helped.

True. But I've never consciously done it.
I was a trackday instructor for 15 years and barely heard it mentioned.
IMHO you should be doing things naturally without it being given a name.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I did look at KTM dirt bike experience days, they have a few locations around the UK and look like loads of fun.

Do it.

[Supermofo]

Well yes, because if you try to steer as you think you should the bike just wants to sit up all the time. But I just thought the mention of the principle would have helped.

True. But I've never consciously done it.
I was a trackday instructor for 15 years and barely heard it mentioned.
IMHO you should be doing things naturally without it being given a name.

Like Yorick (although not as fast, but less northern so not all bad ) I didn't hear of counter steering until I'd been riding for years and years. I learnt by riding as fast as I could and hoping When I read/heard of this 'counter steering' it made sense, but I did it without thinking about it so not really something I've focused on much. If you didn't do it you'd end up in a hedge so it's fairly natural.

[Skub]

#4: gloves. Real pain in the jacksie I find. My right hand thumb is chunky and long (when compared to lefty anyway), a real drag to find gloves that fit properly

Gloves are one of those bits of kit you really need to try on,because sizing is all over the place. I have quite a broad hand,but my fingers aren't thick,so some gloves I can't even get my hand into and others have baggy fingers.

I dread new glove time,because of the ballache of fitting,but also you usually only find out if they're comfy or need breaking in a load of miles down the road. Until I'm sure of comfort,I'll throw a known set of gloves in a rucksack,just in case the new ones play up.

A big mate of mine has hands like shovels and always had difficulty getting gloves,so much so he rode for decades in his bare hands.

It gives me the creeps even thinking about that....

[Noggin]

What are you nervous about exactly mate ?

Same reasons as riding groups on my mountain bike. Being slow and holding up group progress. And getting lost. I've been living here almost 7 years and I still need to consult Google Maps before every ride!

Never worry about being slow or holding up a group - if they are half decent riders they will wait at the next junction for you quite happily or ride to your speed whilst you gain confidence. If they aren't - don't ride with them again!!!

I always tended to ride at the back of a group to keep out of the way - felt safer that way

As others have said - never get pushed to ride faster than you are comfortable

I've often ridden with new riders or riders less confident and I always have them in my mirrors so I can tailor the speed to suit them. If I do want a quick 'play', I slow down and wait for them to catch up. Never any pressure, never any expectation for them to ride in any way out of their comfort zone

Maybe start with finding one person to ride with and build up. But never ever be afraid to quit part way through a ride if you are uncomfortable!!

8 - It has been great for clearing my head. I suffer from anxiety and depression and getting out for a couple of hours does help me switch off when I can just concentrate on riding and enjoying it.

Bikes gave me my brain and happiness back when I first started riding!! It's a really good feeling. A psychologist I spoke to when rehabbing my shoulder said it is a sort of meditation, which makes perfect sense as you are concentrating 100% on the bike/road/ride and there is no room for all the other crap we think of the rest of the time!! And meditation is always recommended!! LOL


Glad you've enjoyed the first 1000 - here's to many many more!!

[The Spin Doctor]

What are you nervous about exactly mate ?

Same reasons as riding groups on my mountain bike. Being slow and holding up group progress. And getting lost. I've been living here almost 7 years and I still need to consult Google Maps before every ride!

Don't worry about holding people up.

If they won't wait, they're not very good mates!

[The Spin Doctor]

I first heard of counter steering on VD.
I'd managed 24 years riding and 10 years racing without being aware of it.

You do it by instinct. Don't need potty training.

You don't have an instinct to ride a bike. It's all learned. Sometimes it's learned totally unconsciously, but it's still learned. Most new riders DO figure it out without it having to be mentioned - I've trained enough new riders on CBT where the DVSA hate it being mentioned to know that. But every now and again someone comes along who CAN'T figure it out for themselves and tries to steer into the bend, with the result that the bike doesn't go where needed.

And frankly, there are some riders for whom learning counter-steering is an absolute revelation too. I've taught enough of them over the years!

And yes, it has to become an automatic learned response to a particular situtation... but until you've learned to do it without thinking, then there's nothing wrong with giving a technique a name either - you call gear-changing 'gear-changing' without worrying about it!

And it also helps riders get out of trouble too!

[Bigyin]

Yea, did all that. Wasn't mentioned once!

That is shockingly poor training!

It's bad enough that DVSA don't want it in CBT, but to not train it for Mod 1 which includes cornering and swerving ... astounding.

Let alone for benefits when riding on-road.

Its deliberately left out of CBT syllabus and also no mention of it in DVSA "Learning to Ride" which covers CBT, Mod 1 and Mod 2 but is included in the DVSA latest version of "Riding, The Essential Skills" on page 180 for a couple of paragraphs with a warning caveat to seek advice from a motorcycle trainer. But this book is aimed at learners and "experienced motorcyclists" according to the blurb





Strange they suggest that yet dont want it delivered by motorcycle trainers on the lead up to their tests

[wheelnut]

Probably going over what others have already said, but congratulations on your first 1k!

Riding with others: this is where is most often goes tits up for riders. Ride your own ride, go at a pace YOU are comfortable with, and, above all, don’t follow others into overtakes. Don’t take off without somewhere to land.

Countersteering: you already do it, however conscious, deliberate counterstering can be a revelation. Try it. Quiet road. 40mph and try pushing the inside bar. It can be a great conscious deliberate and precise tool for tightening your line round a bend or initiating a sudden swerve.

[Scotsrich]

In spite of many years of riding I’m not the quickest around.

I don’t do enough mileage, I acknowledge that but I find riding with others really sharpens me up.

This is going to go against everything said by all about riding with mates but a slightly quicker mate or group is good to be amongst and learn off. Simply gaining confidence by watching then cornering and realising if they can do it then so can you is good. I’d keep to a couple of other bikes for a while.

Again I stress ‘slightly quicker’ not someone who pisses off into the distance and you scare the crap out of yourself or worse trying to keep them in sight.

[Noggin]

In spite of many years of riding I’m not the quickest around.

I don’t do enough mileage, I acknowledge that but I find riding with others really sharpens me up.

This is going to go against everything said by all about riding with mates but a slightly quicker mate or group is good to be amongst and learn off. Simply gaining confidence by watching then cornering and realising if they can do it then so can you is good. I’d keep to a couple of other bikes for a while.

Again I stress ‘slightly quicker’ not someone who pisses off into the distance and you scare the crap out of yourself or worse trying to keep them in sight.

I don't think that goes against the usual advice.

I learnt to ride by riding with two friends who were LOTS quicker than me.

The big difference between what you suggest and feeling that you have to ride out of your comfort zone/skill set is feeling fear - most of us could ride a bit quicker but we don't.

So to ride with people a bit quicker (or much quicker but that tailor their speed to help you, not scare you) is great. There were times I felt a bit "OH MY GOD" following but I was fine. And they both knew how I rode and just pushed me a little each time

I did learn that on track too. A friend was an instructor and I regularly followed him into corners thinking "fuck, he's forgotten I'm following" - but he hadn't and each time I was better (sometimes quicker!). To the point that I did a trackday with another friend who was an ex instructor (and the original friend that taught me to ride on the road) so he wasn't instructing just offering advice after the session. He was a combination of horrified/pleased/impressed/proud when he followed me into Gerrard's at Mallory as I overtook two bikes around the outside



The big thing for me is - if you start to feel scared rather than a bit of a buzz/that you are learning & improving, that is when to back off.

I did that often with my riding buddy because he was stupidly fast on the road and he had a LOT more years of racing/road riding under his belt - but damn I learnt a lot from him!! (He actually didn't wait around all the time but we were always heading for the same place, so he just had to buy breakfast if he left me too far behind!! LOL)

[tricol]

Thanks for all the replies, interesting points, especially on riding in groups and counter steering.

One point by Noggin, I haven't really scared myself yet. Couple of moments were I knew I should have done something differently, but no heart in mouth moments. Plenty of 'if I wasn't keeping an eye on them' moments were drivers really haven't clocked me at junctions etc.

Maybe a long term plan is to get a second bike that I can use on track, but that is a long way off. And I don't know if my wrists and back will thank me!

[Dodgy69]

Pembrey in August.

[Supermofo]

Maybe a long term plan is to get a second bike that I can use on track, but that is a long way off. And I don't know if my wrists and back will thank me!

My first track day or 2 I was nervous but you soon realise that actually it's like being on the road but with no side turnings and everyone going the same way. So in many ways as long as you aren't pushing beyond your limits its safer. Yes there is the odd prat but it's not usually an issue, mainly as they end up upsidedown in a gravel trap 2 sessions in!

[Ditchfinder]

Hey @tricol I'm slow and can show you around Bowland / Dale's if you want someone to pootle about with

[Whysub]

Yes, I wanted to do the Bike Safe course, but all fully booked this year.

Track day isn't for me just yet, not because I don't want too, but don't trust others! I guess too many horror stories and videos on YouTube.....

I can highly recommend The British Superbike School on track training at Blyton in Lincolnshire. Not so much a trackday (but it can be!) but gets you more confident in your abilities and that of your bike. 2 to 1 instruction, excellent instructors, great feedback discussions.

Last time there on my KTM RC8, I could finally exploit the bike to MY limits.

As for riding in groups, I actively avoid riding with people I don't know. I used to ride over to Europe with a grup of mates, but we always split into two groups of 4, or three of 3, and you knew who you would ride with. Worked great, as we tried different routes between the hotel stops at night.

Now i live in Spain, I ride on my own for now. Most other riders I see are on cruiser bikes, and from what I have seen, their group riding is appalling.

Congrats on your first 1000 miles too.

[The Spin Doctor]

I gave up running group rides on VD after too many rides ended prematurely after riders threw themselves into hedges and ditches and in one case into a tractor.

You can be setting the gentlest pace possible - the tractor crash happened at around 25 - but the fact is that group riding errors stack up, just like the rear-end collisions on motorways... someone slows, the rider behind brakes gently, the rider behind that one brakes a bit harder, the next is forced to take some serious evasive action and the last one in line falls off.

And half the group on a group ride will be all over the place on corners. I've only ever ridden with one group where I trusted most of the riders.

If you want to learn to ride faster, learn the basics of riding with an instructor THEN work on pushing your own limits when you know how.

Sorry if it's the wildly unpopular and seemingly expensive option. But as a lot of riders discover, a training course is cheaper than a rebuild.