The beginning of the end . . .

[DefTrap]

You could use the same arguments for other types of segregation, in some events black athletes have a genetic advantage, it's simply a fact of life.
I remember decades ago old men complaining that in the future we'll only see black athletes winning gold medals for some events - that is now the situation and the world hasn't ended, good luck to them, it's awesome to see human beings pushing boundaries and being the best they can be.

If you allow equal rights of entry to all human beings then there will always be a winner and a loser, because we are not all equal. We cannot change that but what we can do is allow everyone the right of equal entry to compete, in anything, whether it's sports or getting a job as a CEO, and this lady now quite rightly has the right of entry to compete in the Olympics, get over it.

This isn't a noble argument about what is fair, life isn't fair, you're supremely ignorant if you think it is, this is just about phobia and prejudice, pure and simple.

Yeah it's a good example of how these things take time to become normal, and how some are unnecessarily scared. I do think it's often scary rather than simple prejudice.

[irie]

Until gender reassignment can change your chromosome set then you'll have to play in the "other" category where your original chromosomes give you an unfair sporting advantage against the sex you chose/want to identify/compete with.

The interesting point is exactly why these 'trans men' feel the need to compete with biological women?

[irie]

The (imo) more interesting point is why these 'trans men' feel the need to compete with biological women?

Because they want equal rights, do keep up at the back.

Does "equal rights" for men (XY chromosomes) mean having identical rights as women (XX chromosomes)? And why do they want/need them?

[JackyJoll]

Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?

[Yambo]

The (imo) more interesting point is why these 'trans men' feel the need to compete with biological women?

Because they want equal rights, do keep up at the back.

What was wrong with the equal rights they shared with men?

For those men who want to identify as a woman and then compete against women, it's nothing to do with equal rights. It's to scratch an itch that was caused by not being as good as they thought they should have been as a man. They want to win. They're driven.

It would be quite simple for them to put on a frock, identify as a woman and get on with their lives, enjoying the equality that simply abounds nowadays. I'm sure a lot of them do and good luck to them. The few that want to put on a frock, identify as a woman and then enter women's competitions do so not for equal rights. It's because they want to dominate and can't or couldn't do so as a man. They want to use their genetic, male advantages in sport against biological women so they can win. They don't want equality, far from it. They may want to identify as a woman but they're misogynistic.

And they can and maybe will, destroy many women's events. Quite simply, why would any biological woman want to compete against a bloke? They'll tell you they don't want to compete against drug cheats so why should they compete against gender cheats? Personally, I'd like to see all the other, biological women in the 87 kg weightlifting event boycott it. They won't of course because they also want to win, or get a PB at the Olympics (and good luck to them) just as they'd compete against drug cheats. The trouble is though that this cheat won't lose any medal they win later on when it's found out they've been cheating. The IOC or whoever are allowing it.

I think biological women deserve better, all biological women. And I don't think I'm the dinosaur or 'phobe' in this argument because I want there to be a level playing field. I want there to be equal opportunities for female competitors. I think it's misogynists to want to put biological women at a disadvantage who are living in the past, who'd prefer women, proper women, to be in the also ran category. "How dare they want to compete on a level playing field? We need a man in the competition to show them who's actually in charge!" "But it's a women's competition, men aren't allowed!" "Meh, we'll fool them by letting the bloke wear a frock. They won't know and if anybody complains we'll say it's all to do with equality and call them a phobe!"

I'd want the same for my sons by the way if for example they were competing in under 15 events and the rules allowed for rather strange 18 year olds (who identify as 14 years old) to compete against them.

[JackyJoll]

If you're raising that as your issue then I don't think you personally should be able to, no.

Glad to hear that.

[irie]

Does "equal rights" for men (XY chromosomes) mean having identical rights as women (XX chromosomes)?

It means that if you're a human being then you should have the same rights as another human being standing next to you, whether they're black, white, man, woman, gay, straight, trans...etc.

Segregation by race, gender, sexuality, etc, is something that you boomers love, but it's not helping humans live together.

Inequality exists from the moment of conception, but in life people have equal right of opportunity. These two are not two sides of the same coin and should not be conflated* The first is conferred by biology and the second is conferred by society.

* which is self-evidently what Stonewall, the trans movement, et. al. are trying to do.

Edit: Yambo said it above.

[Yambo]

Segregation by race, gender, sexuality, etc, is something that you boomers love, but it's not helping humans live together.

Segregation by sex is pretty important in sport though, to allow for some equality to be seen.

You seem to disagree with that though. Which is strange as you also say you want people to be treated equally.

Perhaps you just think sport is wrong. :dunno:

[Yambo]

What was wrong with the equal rights they shared with men?

For those men who want to identify as a woman and then compete against women, it's nothing to do with equal rights. It's to scratch an itch that was caused by not being as good as they thought they should have been as a man. They want to win. They're driven.

God bless you, you actually made me laugh out loud.

God made women subservient, didn't he?

[Mr. Dazzle]

If you want to cheat at sports there are much less drastic ways of doing it. You don't need to cut your nads off

[DefTrap]

It means that if you're a human being then you should have the same rights as another human being standing next to you, whether they're black, white, man, woman, gay, straight, trans...etc.

Segregation by race, gender, sexuality, etc, is something that you boomers love, but it's not helping humans live together.

My eldest (big for his age) played happily in the village football team for 5 years. Then, as a certain level (12+ maybe, I can't recall) the local F.A. got involved, judging him too young. You'd be surprised the number of folk (parents of the team) who shrugged and said "rules are rules", like that was good enough.

I phoned the local F.A. to ask them directly. Some fecking old gammon answered the phone, puffed up his chest and started laying down 'the law' - suddenly he realised he'd gone overboard with his self-important waffle and demanded to know who I was because "you could be a parent or something". Sporting bodies are full of massive w@nkers.

[Mussels]

Is that the sort of thing that immediately springs to your mind when the question of equality is raised?

You probably think that women only want to be CEOs because they're angry and trying to make up for not having a cock and balls

You're attacking straw men now, been on a woke speaking course?

[Yambo]

If your argument is that trans people only do gender reassignment because they're resentful and they want to cheat at sports then I'll leave you to your thoughts and retirement

You probably think that women only want to be CEOs because they're angry and trying to make up for not having a cock and balls

I sometimes wish I lived in your world, it's a lot more basic and uncomplicated.

Strange, that I don't think any of that but that you think I do. My world is fairly uncomplicated it's true but it isn't necessary for me to extrapolate any statement into a black and white case for exaggeration. Your world seems to be a lot simpler than mine.

My argument is not that trans people only do gender reassignment because they're resentful etc, I think it's because they have a psychological disorder or two (maybe more).
In your very simple black and white world that makes me a 'phobe' or 'dinosaur' and you can and will extrapolate that to whatever takes your fancy (women as CEOs perhaps) or whatever. In fact, you're so far from the truth that it makes you look stupid.

[Yambo]

If you want to cheat at sports there are much less drastic ways of doing it. You don't need to cut your nads off

I'm sure you know all about cheating at sport.

I agree with you though - you don't need to cut your nads off. You have to lower your testosterone and say I identify as a woman. Now, if a by-product of identifying as a woman and transitioning gives someone an advantage that was sadly lacking before, then some people are going to take it aren't they. I think that's human nature.

[Greenman]

The (imo) more interesting point is why these 'trans men' feel the need to compete with biological women?

Because they want equal rights, do keep up at the back.

What was wrong with the equal rights they shared with men?

For those men who want to identify as a woman and then compete against women, it's nothing to do with equal rights. It's to scratch an itch that was caused by not being as good as they thought they should have been as a man. They want to win. They're driven.

It would be quite simple for them to put on a frock, identify as a woman and get on with their lives, enjoying the equality that simply abounds nowadays. I'm sure a lot of them do and good luck to them. The few that want to put on a frock, identify as a woman and then enter women's competitions do so not for equal rights. It's because they want to dominate and can't or couldn't do so as a man. They want to use their genetic, male advantages in sport against biological women so they can win. They don't want equality, far from it. They may want to identify as a woman but they're misogynistic.

And they can and maybe will, destroy many women's events. Quite simply, why would any biological woman want to compete against a bloke? They'll tell you they don't want to compete against drug cheats so why should they compete against gender cheats? Personally, I'd like to see all the other, biological women in the 87 kg weightlifting event boycott it. They won't of course because they also want to win, or get a PB at the Olympics (and good luck to them) just as they'd compete against drug cheats. The trouble is though that this cheat won't lose any medal they win later on when it's found out they've been cheating. The IOC or whoever are allowing it.

I think biological women deserve better, all biological women. And I don't think I'm the dinosaur or 'phobe' in this argument because I want there to be a level playing field. I want there to be equal opportunities for female competitors. I think it's misogynists to want to put biological women at a disadvantage who are living in the past, who'd prefer women, proper women, to be in the also ran category. "How dare they want to compete on a level playing field? We need a man in the competition to show them who's actually in charge!" "But it's a women's competition, men aren't allowed!" "Meh, we'll fool them by letting the bloke wear a frock. They won't know and if anybody complains we'll say it's all to do with equality and call them a phobe!"

I'd want the same for my sons by the way if for example they were competing in under 15 events and the rules allowed for rather strange 18 year olds (who identify as 14 years old) to compete against them.

Spot on that.

I was going to type up a post similar but you have done it for me...

I'm considering identifying as Bob Marley so i can get some free jerk chicken from the local Caribbean takeaway...

[Greenman]

I'm considering identifying as Bob Marley so i can get some free jerk chicken from the local Caribbean takeaway...

Coming from a white bloke that's fucking brilliant
They give free jerk chicken and water melon out to black people near you do they?

Jesus

I'm white but i identify as Black, please stop offending my equal rights!

Why does this offend you but a man identifying as a women does not?

[Greenman]

I'm white but i identify as Black, please stop offending my equal rights!

Yeah brill, a bunch of prejudiced boomers and now a white IT bloke claiming to identify as black and wanting to black up to get free jerk chicken.

Dickheads.

No blacking up, i identify as black so that is all that is needed. My cock was always this big honest!

[gremlin]

Dickheads.

That ^ from a Moderator?

Seriously?

[MrLongbeard]

Bummer

[Greenman]

Dickheads.

That ^ from a Moderator?

Seriously?

You think I'm a mod? Lol.

Maybe he just thought you liked mopeds with loadsa mirrors on them...