The beginning of the end . . .

[irie]

Are we really likely to see a 100meters women's final with a strong field of transgenders?

Probably, for the same reason that coaches only train black athletes for the sprints, because they'll win due to natural selection/advantage.

Some people only want to pick and choose the bits of equality that they think are ok, I genuinely think that they don't understand equality.
Like I said, if everything you do is important then nothing is important, if everyone has equal opportunities then as this demonstrates, no one is equal.

Singling trans people out as the backstop to it isn't fair, either let them be equal as well or stop pretending we're all equal and let nature sort it out.

The solution to this conundrum as you say is indeed to let equal compete against equal. In other words, let trans compete against trans. Sorted.

Then what? Trans against trans, black against black, white against white, gays against gays...

We're either going to pretend we're all equal or we aren't, singling one section out as not equal because it doesn't align with your pseudo-creationist viewpoint is not equality - unless you're an actual creationist and then everyone apart from you is going to hell anyway.

Pseudo-creationism? No, it's fundamental biology.

The trans and other groups pushing this agenda can never be women because they have XY chromosomes whereas women have XX chromosomes (there are relatively rare exceptions to XY and XX). They are perhaps 1-2% of the population and care only about themselves. They are self serving misogynists and anti women (who account for over 50% of the population). Competing with women is dishonest, and blatant cheating.

Your call.

[Supermofo]

It's def a conundrum and I'm glad I don't have to solve it.

I think the basic premise is flawed though. People want the rules to be fair and equal etc, but life isn't fair. So either ban trans and make it fair for biological women or allow trans and make it unfair for biological women. I don't see how you can square the circle. Unless you have
Men
Women
Other

IMO that's the fairest way (although still far from perfect) but I know a lot of trans don't want to be an 'other'. I understand that and why and I think it should be minimised where possible but the reality IMO is trans people are 'Other'. I sympathise with them and I'm happy to treat them how they would like to be treated where possible but again IMO there are some area's where the fact is they aren't actually what they want to be. Case in point can a trans women have a natural female birth? No it's impossible. So I think some biological facts like males being stronger than females in general can't be ignored in sport. But luckily I'm not making that decision.

[gremlin]

2 classes.

Born with bollox.
Born without bollox.

Simples

And where would that have left Hitler, eh?

[Yorick]

I just saw this on another forum that I frequent.

[McNab]

2 classes.

Born with bollox.
Born without bollox.

Simples

And where would that have left Hitler, eh?

I seem to remember his mother cut it off when he was very small, so he'd still be in the first category.

[slowsider]

2 classes.

Born with bollox.
Born without bollox.

Simples

And where would that have left Hitler, eh?

I seem to remember his mother cut it off when he was very small, so he'd still be in the first category.

Him and Himmler.

[JackyJoll]

People having equality doesn’t mean you can’t have women’s sports events without male participants.

Is that because it wouldn't be equal to have men and women competing against each other?

Many competitions would be very unequal, at least until women stopped entering and women’s sport was all men.

[slowsider]

People having equality doesn’t mean you can’t have women’s sports events without male participants.

Is that because it wouldn't be equal to have men and women competing against each other?

Many competitions would be very unequal, at least until women stopped entering and women’s sport was all men.

Is the queue of men wanting to win women's medals really that long ?

[JackyJoll]

Is the queue of men wanting to win women's medals really that long ?

I don’t know.

In what way would they be women’s medals, or women’s athletic events, if men can enter?

[irie]

Many competitions would be very unequal, at least until women stopped entering and women’s sport was all men.

Women would have equal opportunity to enter.

You ignore the fact that the inevitable outcome of the such a policy would be that in all competitions which depended on physical strength women would be uncompetitive. Labelling XX and XY chromosome differences as "pseudo-creationism" is staggering ignorant.

[slowsider]

Is the queue of men wanting to win women's medals really that long ?

I don’t know.

In what way would they be women’s medals, or women’s athletic events, if men can enter?

women’s sport

you tell me

[JackyJoll]

Is the queue of men wanting to win women's medals really that long ?

I don’t know.

In what way would they be women’s medals, or women’s athletic events, if men can enter?

women’s sport

you tell me

Now that I do know (because it’s obvious even to an idiot). Women’s sports are for women only, otherwise they’re not women’s events.

Is some loser going to ask what a woman is, now?

[Yambo]

Is some loser going to ask what a woman is, now?

Certainly some people are confused these days.

[Mussels]

Are there any biologically lady sportspeople competing in men's sports?

Or do we not care because they would be disadvantaged / crap?

Loads, but men don't whine about it so much.
I remember hearing about a full mens volleyball team made up of half trans men that used to be women, can't remember which country it was though.

Actually I'll google it...

From wiki...In 1996 the Iron Ladies, a men's volleyball team made up of gay men and transgender women from Thailand, won the national championship. The Iron Ladies were not allowed to join Thailand's national volleyball team because of the way they dressed.[13]

The first out transgender person to make a US National Team was Chris Mosier, who in 2016 qualified for Team USA in duathlon.[9] Mosier is considered the catalyst for the change[14] in the IOC policy on transgender athletes in 2015, when he challenged the policy after initially being banned from the world championship race. Mosier also became the first known transgender athlete to compete in the Olympic Trials in the gender with which they identify, and the first trans man to make a men's Olympic Trials, when he competed in January 2020 in the US Olympic Team Trials in the 50k Racewalking event.[15]

In 2017 Mack Beggs, a teenager from Texas, was required to wrestle against girls throughout the season of his transition from female to male up through the state championship, despite wanting to wrestle against boys. This was due to state sport regulations requiring athletes to compete alongside athletes of their assigned sex. Some opponents say the testosterone prescribed as part of his transition gives him an unfair advantage and made it unsafe for the other wrestlers. (He finished the regular season at 52–0 and won the state championship.)[16]

In October 2018, Rachel McKinnon won a gold medal at the cycling Masters World Track Championship in Los Angeles.[17] At the time, she was the youngest in the 35–44 age bracket.

This is a good example of the confusion some are aiming for, only one on that list was born a woman and competed in mens sport. No medals won so nobody cared.
One was a girl taking testosterone and competing with girls so no surprise she won, she wanted to compete with boys.
One was born a man who was a middling athlete, changed sex and started winning medals against women.
The iron ladies were all men competing in a men's league, ladyboy is a slightly vague term.

[Mussels]

And in order to stop the prejudice the end of women's sport is justified, same as the end of women only facilities is justified.

[Mussels]

And in order to stop the prejudice the end of women's sport is justified, same as the end of women only facilities is justified.

That's progress, in order to give women equal rights men had to give up their monopoly on many things, lots of men didn't want to do that and I suppose the irony here is that women thought that was the end of it, they didn't foresee a new situation where the same might be asked from them - but if we're going to argue with nature and pretend everyone is equal then it has to be applied everywhere.

I agree with that but I don't think any pressure groups want complete equality. If women's sport was merged with mens then I don't imagine any trans athletes celebrating.
This is I think why some trans groups have opposed a complete ban on conversion therapy, they realised any legislation would apply to them too.

[irie]

... this lady ...

Lady?

Ladies have XX chromosomes, get over it.

You're either trolling, intentionally remaining ignorant, or perhaps just proof that intelligent people can do and say stupid things.

Or perhaps a combination of all three.

[Mussels]

... this lady ...

Lady?

You're either trolling, intentionally remaining ignorant, or perhaps just proof that intelligent people can do and say stupid things.

Or perhaps a combination of all three.

He is free to use whatever gender he wants, just as anyone else should be. Just as anyone should be free to point out that sex and gender are not the same thing, as trans people used to like pointing out a few years ago.

[irie]

... this lady ...

Lady?

You're either trolling, intentionally remaining ignorant, or perhaps just proof that intelligent people can do and say stupid things.

Or perhaps a combination of all three.

He is free to use whatever gender he wants, just as anyone else should be. Just as anyone should be free to point out that sex and gender are not the same thing, as trans people used to like pointing out a few years ago.

The point, of course, is that by calling yourself something does not mean that you then become that "something".

Putting it bluntly, if you are a member of the XY set and decide to call yourself a member of the XX set that does not make it so. You can never be a member of that set. It's basic biology.

[MingtheMerciless]

Until gender reassignment can change your chromosome set then you'll have to play in the "other" category where your original chromosomes give you an unfair sporting advantage against the sex you chose/want to identify/compete with.