21 dead in ultramarathon

[weeksy]

Twenty-one people have died after hail, freezing rain and high winds hit runners taking part in a 100km (62-mile) ultramarathon in a mountainous part of northern China.

More than 700 rescuers and army personnel used thermal-imaging drones and radar detectors to try to find runners caught by the storm in the race in Yellow River stone forest near Baiyin in north-western Gansu province, officials said.

Twenty-one people died and eight were injured, officials from Baiyin told a news briefing.

Wow... that's quite a shock in this day and age isn't it !

[Noggin]

Bloody hell! Surely that sort of weather is possible to track???

[MingtheMerciless]

China, life is cheap.

[Trinity765]

Yikes! "The race was halted when some of the 172 runners went missing, and a rescue operation was launched. The deaths have sparked public outrage on Chinese social media, with anger mainly directed at the Baiyin government and unhappiness over the lack of contingency planning."

[Yambo]

Yikes! "The race was halted when some of the 172 runners went missing, and a rescue operation was launched. The deaths have sparked public outrage on Chinese social media, with anger mainly directed at the Baiyin government and unhappiness over the lack of contingency planning."

It's always the governments fault with some people.
If I was going on that run I would be prepared, or I'd accept the risk. If I went on it blindly expecting the government to bail me out of every eventuality then I'd be silly.

Every time I do something a bit risky I figure that I'm on my own, if someone can bail me out then all well and good, but it's not a human right.

^^^^^^
That.

[Pirahna]

I used to meet a few friends for an early June mountain bike event in Herefordshire, an annual event that sadly no longer runs. We'd camp the night before, ride then camp again, drink a few beers, talk shit, that sort of thing.

One year the weather wasn't as advertised. I decided not to ride as I didn't have the riding kit with me to cope with the cold and wet, many others went ahead. A couple of hours later riders had crossed the first ridge and descended into a village, some knocked on doors asking for help. It finished with over 20 riders taken to hospital with hypothermia. In my opinion the very least that should have happened was a kit check of riders before the start to make sure they understood the danger. Canceling an event is a big headache for the organiser.

[slowsider]

Yikes! "The race was halted when some of the 172 runners went missing, and a rescue operation was launched. The deaths have sparked public outrage on Chinese social media, with anger mainly directed at the Baiyin government and unhappiness over the lack of contingency planning."

It's always the governments fault with some people.
If I was going on that run I would be prepared, or I'd accept the risk. If I went on it blindly expecting the government to bail me out of every eventuality then I'd be silly.

Every time I do something a bit risky I figure that I'm on my own, if someone can bail me out then all well and good, but it's not a human right.

^^^^^^
That.

Events like that generally have a risk assessment and a go/no-go decision. Even a local triathlon here has to have rescue boats in the water for the swim section. Why wouldn't an elite ultra-marathon in challenging terrain have had adequate contingency planning?

As for human rights, FFS, if Potty has a car-crash in Dubai he'll be taken to a hospital - so much for being on his own

[slowsider]

Let's try and compare apples with apples - this wasn't an individual strolling over the hills. Imagine you compete in the Fastnet race, rather than sailing off around the world. Things go awry. Have you made your own arrangements for lifeboat and rescue helicopter, or is it reasonable for the organisers and the civil authorities to have made provision for a crisis?

[weeksy]

Let's try and compare apples with apples - this wasn't an individual strolling over the hills. Imagine you compete in the Fastnet race, rather than sailing off around the world. Things go awry. Have you made your own arrangements for lifeboat and rescue helicopter, or is it reasonable for the organisers and the civil authorities to have made provision for a crisis?

Reasonable yes... but if a freak tidal wave comes along that's 100m high, you wouldn't expect them to be able to rescue 100 boats.

[slowsider]

Let's try and compare apples with apples - this wasn't an individual strolling over the hills. Imagine you compete in the Fastnet race, rather than sailing off around the world. Things go awry. Have you made your own arrangements for lifeboat and rescue helicopter, or is it reasonable for the organisers and the civil authorities to have made provision for a crisis?

Reasonable yes... but if a freak tidal wave comes along that's 100m high, you wouldn't expect them to be able to rescue 100 boats.

If it had been forecast, like the bad weather in this case, you wouldn't expect them to continue with the event.
As it is, "China’s sports governing body ordered improvements in safety managements in national sport events, including detailed contingency plans for incidents and measures for emergency cancellations, saying there were “problems and deficiencies” in the management model for races."

Look at this extract from an Ironman Wales planning document (first hit from google) :
"8.2
IRONMAN Ltd (IMLTD) will accept and show a DUTY OF CARE responsibility for the safety of
the event. In particular they will take all necessary precautions to ensure the safety of:-

 All active participants.
 Spectators and organising officials.
 All non-participants including residents, pedestrians, shoppers, motorists etc.

8.3
Should any incident occur, IMLTD will be in a position to demonstrate to others that there
was a pre-event plan that took into consideration the safety of all the three classifications of
people."

[crust]

Let's try and compare apples with apples - this wasn't an individual strolling over the hills. Imagine you compete in the Fastnet race, rather than sailing off around the world. Things go awry. Have you made your own arrangements for lifeboat and rescue helicopter, or is it reasonable for the organisers and the civil authorities to have made provision for a crisis?

Fastnet may have not been the best example - or were you refering to the 1979 disaster when a storm ripped the race apart, the organisers weren't prepared then? It took a disaster for them to learn the lessons.

As much as we can put people in space etc we still can't predict the weather, anyone venturing out into the wilds in an extreme event without a basic survival kit puts their life at risk and should IMHO take responsibility for their own survival as far as possible. You can't rely on other people to save you because sometimes nature throws a proper big curve ball that no amount of risk assessment is going to be prepared for.

Most years people die on Everest, the mountain hasn't changed, everyone knows the risk and bad weather, landslides etc yet they still go and still die.

[slowsider]

Let's try and compare apples with apples - this wasn't an individual strolling over the hills. Imagine you compete in the Fastnet race, rather than sailing off around the world. Things go awry. Have you made your own arrangements for lifeboat and rescue helicopter, or is it reasonable for the organisers and the civil authorities to have made provision for a crisis?

Fastnet may have not been the best example - or were you refering to the 1979 disaster when a storm ripped the race apart, the organisers weren't prepared then? It took a disaster for them to learn the lessons.

As much as we can put people in space etc we still can't predict the weather, anyone venturing out into the wilds in an extreme event without a basic survival kit puts their life at risk and should IMHO take responsibility for their own survival as far as possible. You can't rely on other people to save you because sometimes nature throws a proper big curve ball that no amount of risk assessment is going to be prepared for.

Most years people die on Everest, the mountain hasn't changed, everyone knows the risk and bad weather, landslides etc yet they still go and still die.

I was using an example of a competitive event rather than potter's jaunt around the world.
Your Everest example doesn't demonstrate a sudden change in conditions, which is the case in point.

[weeksy]

Try climbing Annapurna unprepared.

I was watching her on Pornhub, she looked prepared to me.

[MingtheMerciless]

Interesting fact about Fastnett was that the jet stream interacted with a strong low pressure system breaking it up into 5 “turbo charged” storms. This meant even experienced seafarers were in trouble as the sea and waves were totally in unreadable which is what contributed towards the loss of life.

Apparently it is a very rare meteorological event and back then would have been very hard to predict.

[slowsider]

Try climbing Annapurna unprepared.
When it goes wrong you can blame the government

Try organizing the London marathon without an ambulance on standby. When it goes wrong, you can decline liability.

[Horse]

Interesting fact about Fastnett ...

... very hard to predict.

Whether (sic) or not it's connected or not, I have no idea. But the weather the week before was awful. I was sailing all week, although we stayed in the Solent.

[Jody]

Interesting fact about Fastnett was that the jet stream interacted with a strong low pressure system breaking it up into 5 “turbo charged” storms. This meant even experienced seafarers were in trouble as the sea and waves were totally in unreadable which is what contributed towards the loss of life.

Apparently it is a very rare meteorological event and back then would have been very hard to predict.

That made the news because it was an event and the scale of how many boats involved, but men died at sea often, my wife's grandfather was lost at sea, all her family were (or still are) commercial fishermen and it wasn't unusual. But since then H&S on boats is better understood, especially for leisure sailors who might come across those conditions very infrequently and not be sure how to react. Training and awareness is a lot better and if the Fastnet disaster were to happen today there would be a lot less casualties.

It's a commonly accepted thing with sailors though, that if you go overboard in those kinds of conditions then you're not coming back, there are no ambulances parked up waiting to catch you. Same with this race in the mountains, if you go then you'd have to accept that a rescue might come, or it might not, but even if it does you need to be able to survive for quite a long time before they get to you and that might simply not be possible.

When I go sailing or up a mountain then I accept the risks, I'd like for someone to try and get to me because I'd do the same for them, but it's not my right and I'll accept my fate if it doesn't happen. For some of us that's part of the reason we try arduous and adventurous things without an ambulance in tow and long may it continue, lest the human spirit turn into a lily-livered pansy.

When George Mallory was found in 1999 on the side of Everest there was no mention of there being in his possession a strongly worded letter expressing his outrage to the government about them not coming to rescue him.

I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty certain that it's not the dead athletes from China that are doing the 'complaining', I'd take a guess it's their families. Can you really say, hand on heart, that if you were to die on one of your adventures, all your family and friends would not be upset and look for 'someone' to lash out at ?

[slowsider]

My bad, I'd forgotten that in his attempt at the first ascent of Everest, George Mallory signed on at race control for a massed start competitive event including paralympians.
And that the Fastnet fatalities were mitigated by the naval assets sent by four governments.

[Yorick]

My bad, I'd forgotten that in his attempt at the first ascent of Everest, George Mallory signed on at race control for a massed start competitive event including paralympians.
And that the Fastnet fatalities were mitigated by the naval assets sent by four governments.

The Everest expeditions, this race and the Fastnet were essentially the same thing, it was humans pitting themselves against the elements and themselves, with risk involved.
Pissing and moaning that you weren't recused quickly enough in the event of your failure is weak as fuck.

But if you pay big money to participate, it's fair to expect the relevant help.

[Cousin Jack]

But if you pay big money to participate, it's fair to expect the relevant help.

Don't buy a trip up Everest. You will be disappointed.

Megabucks, but if you can''t walk down no-one will carry you.