Supersport gap filler: Yamaha MT-07 dresses up to replace R6

[Bigjawa]

FZR was supposed to take on the CBR, I'd say it's more like an FZ600. (One of the great underdogs IMO)

That's a bit harsh

I liked mine, was never gonna be a CBR, but it went well enough for a parts bin special.

on the vast majority of bikes that have electronics, they can all be switched off or easily disabled. You'd think a bike designed more for lower level riders would arguable benefit more from electronics too.

Learner bikes don't need that stuff or you'll never learn to ride properly and become too dependent on the stuff.

Time have moved on fella... the days of carbs, blipping, non-slipper clutches we'll never see again, we don't need people to learn things that they'll never ride.
I'd love to know if Marquez for example has ever even ridden a bike without all the modern bits.

In fairness, you could put Marquez on a Manx Norton and he'd still be faster than 99.9% of people on this planet.

[weeksy]

In fairness, you could put Marquez on a Manx Norton and he'd still be faster than 99.9% of people on this planet.

Granted, but wasn't really my point in any way at all.

[Hot_Air]

While I’m glad to have ABS and traction control, particularly on cold and wet winter evenings, I feel we’re losing something with all this tech. Whether it’s blipping the throttle to match revs with engine speed or finessing the brakes, learning and applying these skills has added to my riding pleasure. (Incidentally, the same goes for advanced riding: striving to be smooth and inch-perfect with my road riding lines has added considerably to the fun of riding on the road.)

Usually, I'm an early tech adopter and gadget-lover (I bought an airbag before you could say ‘Hot Air’ ). But more riding technology can mean less riding involvement. And where’s the fun in that?

[weeksy]

While I’m glad to have ABS and traction control, particularly on cold and wet winter evenings, I feel we’re losing something with all this tech. Whether it’s blipping the throttle to match revs with engine speed or finessing the brakes, learning and applying these skills has added to my riding pleasure. (Incidentally, the same goes for advanced riding: striving to be smooth and inch-perfect with my road riding lines has added considerably to the fun of riding on the road.)

Usually, I'm an early tech adopter and gadget-lover (I bought an airbag before you could say ‘Hot Air’ ). But more riding technology can mean less riding involvement. And where’s the fun in that?

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

While I’m glad to have ABS and traction control, particularly on cold and wet winter evenings, I feel we’re losing something with all this tech. Whether it’s blipping the throttle to match revs with engine speed or finessing the brakes, learning and applying these skills has added to my riding pleasure. (Incidentally, the same goes for advanced riding: striving to be smooth and inch-perfect with my road riding lines has added considerably to the fun of riding on the road.)

Usually, I'm an early tech adopter and gadget-lover (I bought an airbag before you could say ‘Hot Air’ ). But more riding technology can mean less riding involvement. And where’s the fun in that?

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

Or you just crash at a higher speed?

[The Spin Doctor]

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

I think it just means riders ride closer to the edge with no idea when they'll cross it.

[weeksy]

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

I think it just means riders ride closer to the edge with no idea when they'll cross it.

Not sure I agree, based upon the number of crashes I see on tracks these days, I'd say they're less than they used to be, despite more high power bikes.
Would be an interesting one to know though

[Couchy]

I often wonder if anyone who comments on modern electronics has ever ridden one in anger and tried to make them cut in ? 90% of those on a Trackday won’t ever trouble abs or traction control. View them as a performance aide and try to use them as such and they are superb, you can still crash if you give it full throttle exiting a corner as a mate did last week. But get smoothly on the gas earlier and earlier and eventually they’ll kick in. But the limit is very high and takes a lot of reaching

[Yorick]

While I’m glad to have ABS and traction control, particularly on cold and wet winter evenings, I feel we’re losing something with all this tech. Whether it’s blipping the throttle to match revs with engine speed or finessing the brakes, learning and applying these skills has added to my riding pleasure. (Incidentally, the same goes for advanced riding: striving to be smooth and inch-perfect with my road riding lines has added considerably to the fun of riding on the road.)

Usually, I'm an early tech adopter and gadget-lover (I bought an airbag before you could say ‘Hot Air’ ). But more riding technology can mean less riding involvement. And where’s the fun in that?

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

No, you can't go faster. That's the thing. stuff like TC just helps the numpties.

Neil Hodgson did a test on an RSV4 and he beat all the trickery stuff by miles.

[Yorick]

I often wonder if anyone who comments on modern electronics has ever ridden one in anger and tried to make them cut in ? 90% of those on a Trackday won’t ever trouble abs or traction control. View them as a performance aide and try to use them as such and they are superb, you can still crash if you give it full throttle exiting a corner as a mate did last week. But get smoothly on the gas earlier and earlier and eventually they’ll kick in. But the limit is very high and takes a lot of reaching

Good answer. Too many folk think it's a failsafe device.

Mine was too intrusive . Even kicking in when accelerating hard in 25c temperatures upright.

[Couchy]

I often wonder if anyone who comments on modern electronics has ever ridden one in anger and tried to make them cut in ? 90% of those on a Trackday won’t ever trouble abs or traction control. View them as a performance aide and try to use them as such and they are superb, you can still crash if you give it full throttle exiting a corner as a mate did last week. But get smoothly on the gas earlier and earlier and eventually they’ll kick in. But the limit is very high and takes a lot of reaching

Good answer. Too many folk think it's a failsafe device.

Mine was too intrusive . Even kicking in when accelerating hard in 25c temperatures upright.

Yup anti wheelie does that, I like TC but I don’t like anti wheelie The real good ones though have slide control too but it still needs commitment and skill from the rider and most won’t have that

[weeksy]

While I’m glad to have ABS and traction control, particularly on cold and wet winter evenings, I feel we’re losing something with all this tech. Whether it’s blipping the throttle to match revs with engine speed or finessing the brakes, learning and applying these skills has added to my riding pleasure. (Incidentally, the same goes for advanced riding: striving to be smooth and inch-perfect with my road riding lines has added considerably to the fun of riding on the road.)

Usually, I'm an early tech adopter and gadget-lover (I bought an airbag before you could say ‘Hot Air’ ). But more riding technology can mean less riding involvement. And where’s the fun in that?

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

No, you can't go faster. That's the thing. stuff like TC just helps the numpties.

Neil Hodgson did a test on an RSV4 and he beat all the trickery stuff by miles.

Well yes, he's ex wsb champion, I'd expect that. But average Joe in novices may get more confidence from them?

[Yorick]

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

No, you can't go faster. That's the thing. stuff like TC just helps the numpties.

Neil Hodgson did a test on an RSV4 and he beat all the trickery stuff by miles.

Well yes, he's ex wsb champion, I'd expect that. But average Joe in novices may get more confidence from them?

But folk might think that the electronics will keep them alive and they can do WTF they like

[Bigjawa]

OR does it just mean you can go faster without crashing ?

No, you can't go faster. That's the thing. stuff like TC just helps the numpties.

Neil Hodgson did a test on an RSV4 and he beat all the trickery stuff by miles.

Well yes, he's ex wsb champion, I'd expect that. But average Joe in novices may get more confidence from them?

No, you can't go faster. That's the thing. stuff like TC just helps the numpties.

Neil Hodgson did a test on an RSV4 and he beat all the trickery stuff by miles.

Well yes, he's ex wsb champion, I'd expect that. But average Joe in novices may get more confidence from them?

But folk might think that the electronics will keep them alive and they can do WTF they like

Reminds me of the time one of the big mags did a test of the first TCS/ABS Pan Euros, the tester gave it full beans on a wet roundabout and was taken aback that 300 kilos of bike threw itself into the scenery.

I wouldn't go hunting for tech myself, but if it was on a bike I like I'm not going to pass it by because it's not able to be turned off.

[Potter]

I'm not a fast rider and I had to turn the ABS and traction off on my MV when I was on the track, it was too intrusive and I shat myself when it completely took the brakes off me at the end of the straight for about a second (which is a long time at that speed).

My mate here had never ridden a bike and went from nothing to a Ducati Superbike. I used to ride behind him and I would regularly wince when he ham-fisted it and I saw the electronics save him, I don't think he even knew it was happening. I don't ride with him anymore so I don't know if he's got better, but they certainly saved him a lot.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I've never ridden a bike with TCS or ABS, but I've never felt like I needed either, though I can see that both could be useful in variable conditions, I also suspect it's like cars and there are good and bad versions of electronics, I had an Astra Coupe that you could feel what the electronics were doing, cutting power before I would close the throttle, my Mitsubishi Lancet has the same power and I don't notice the traction control, you also have to push very hard to make the stability control cut in, and you only notice it because you can hear the solenoids, but it does feel like if you lost it there would be no warning and it would go in a big way.

[weeksy]

There's deffo good and bad for sure. The KTM 690 i NEVER activated the ABS or the TC, the XSR900 i can activate the ABS on track, even though i don't want to ! Both are me riding in the same sort of way, arguably on the 690 i was harder on the brakes as it kinda suits doing that in how it rides.

[KungFooBob]

I've had ABS bikes, I can count on one hand the number of times it's kicked in, but it's a nice to have.

I've only had one bike with TC... and it only made 47bhp.

I could get the TC light flashing if I did a drag start from the lights.

My old 330 Beemer had stability control, it saved me from near death in the wet a few times, it was like magic.

[Supermofo]

I personally think electronics are a good idea as a bit of safety net. ie if you get it wrong and panic brake or might save you from a slide that might otherwise have you off. I don't think I'd ever view them as a performance aid. On that basis if the R7 had them I'd be happy with it, but equally it not having TC/QS etc wouldn't stop me buying one if I wanted one. But having never had TC it's not something I view as essential. A good ABS system would be more attractive for me than TC.

[The Spin Doctor]

Not sure I agree, based upon the number of crashes I see on tracks these days, I'd say they're less than they used to be, despite more high power bikes.
Would be an interesting one to know though

I'm thinking about road riders rather than track (which I'll freely admit is NOT my area of expertise, though I did manage a bit of rear wheel steering coming out of Clearways at Brands on the Hornet on a boiling hot afternoon a couple of years ago - the sport-touring tyre had completely overheated after 15 mins on track!).

One of the favourite October / November crashes is a rear wheel spin-up when turning right, either out of a side turning, or on a roundabout. Riders have got used to warm dry tarmac, and twisting the throttle halfway round the turn. The first time they do that on a cold, damp morning the rear end breaks away barely over walking pace.

The solution is to turn square on a steady throttle THEN power it up when pointing the right way.

Now, people argue with me on this saying "traction control means the rear wheel won't kick out". All I can say to that is that electronics can't compensate for zero grip from the road surface. I nearly lost a brand-new 2018 V-Strom 1000 when the rear started overtaking the front on a slick, polished surface mid-bend. The traction control (which was switched on) made no ruddy difference at all. With zero grip from the worn-out strip of surface, the tyre had nothing to stick to and just went sideways.