Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[irie]

Seriously, if someone has a headache for 4 days and doesn't seek medical attention they're just a little bit fuckin' stupid I think.

Regardless of any fuckin' vaccination.

16 years Mrs Weeksy has had a headache, every night about 9pm.

Ooh, that's naughty!

[Yambo]

16 years Mrs Weeksy has had a headache, every night about 9pm.

Women go on about being able to multi-task but I never met one who could have sex and a headache.

[irie]

16 years Mrs Weeksy has had a headache, every night about 9pm.

Women go on about being able to multi-task but I never met one who could have sex and a headache.

They say they can multi-task but their split focus means that none of the tasks are properly executed. Well that's what I tell Angie who then simply tells me to fuck off. Gotta love 'em.

[weeksy]

BBC seems to agree that France is potentially in the shit yes...but this can't come as a massive shock to people can it ? Their vaccinations have been slow and erratic at best.... what else would we expect to see?

[Nidge]

My colleagues in NL tell me that they are geared up for the 3rd wave and critical care beds are already in short supply. It’s a race between deployment of the vaccine and the incoming 3rd wave- and people are becoming increasingly vexed with the govt

[Mussels]

I'm a little surprised by how bad infections are on the mainland but there's too much focus on vaccines and not enough on people mixing freely. I suspect even without vaccines the positions of the UK and EU would be similar to how they are now.

[weeksy]

I'm a little surprised by how bad infections are on the mainland but there's too much focus on vaccines and not enough on people mixing freely. I suspect even without vaccines the positions of the UK and EU would be similar to how they are now.

Aye, i think that's reasonable, i get surprised when i see on the US forums that all the guys there are mixing mostly freely too.

I think the UKs position will strengthen too when we're allowed out as our vaccines increase and the population is still being fairly sensible. Sure we've had some muppets... but it's clear the system is working.

[irie]

Agree with the above - the worst is yet to come, I fear. Czechia's infection level in relation to it's population is staggering.

These are yesterdays new cases followed by populations.

• 1 France +34,998 65,376,448
  2 Poland +27,278 37,817,030
  3 Italy +24,935 60,398,370
  4 Germany +17,860 83,974,794
  5 Ukraine +15,053 43,545,901
  6 Czechia +12,003 10,723,142
  7 Russia +9,803 145,979,091
  8 Hungary +6,502 9,642,836
  9 UK +6,303 68,139,835
  10 Spain +6,216 46,767,694
  11 Romania +6,174 19,145,910
  12 Netherlands +6,125 17,161,892
  13 Serbia +5,346 8,712,226
  14 Belgium +5,116 11,625,538
  15 Bulgaria +4,008 6,911,025
  16 Austria +3,357 9,042,968
  17 Greece +3,070 10,386,667
  18 Slovakia +2,040 5,461,528

[irie]

The European vaccine rollout failure is a direct result of the application of the "Precautionary Principle" which is a key foundation of the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", 25th March 1957.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... M%3Al32042

[weeksy]

The European vaccine rollout failure is a direct result of the application of the "Precautionary Principle" which is a key foundation of the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", 25th March 1957.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... M%3Al32042

Any thoughts or just copy/paste as usual ?

[Supermofo]

I'm a little surprised by how bad infections are on the mainland but there's too much focus on vaccines and not enough on people mixing freely. I suspect even without vaccines the positions of the UK and EU would be similar to how they are now.

It does come across a bit like people just thought the UK was shit and that's why we got slammed in Dec/Jan/Feb, rather than it being mainly down to new more virulent strains. We got to where we are by some form of lockdown or another since Nov, the vaccines will help keep people out of hospital touch wood, but our case numbers are low due to lockdown more than anything else.

It does seem in Europe that they've been able to get away with more semi lockdowns whilst still keeping a lid on things, but just as they want to open up they are being hit by what we had in winter. Let's hope not as bad.

As for us I pray our numbers don't get really bad again as we come out of lockdown, it's felt like a long shit winter.

[irie]

The European vaccine rollout failure is a direct result of the application of the "Precautionary Principle" which is a key foundation of the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", 25th March 1957.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... M%3Al32042

Any thoughts or just copy/paste as usual ?

The only copy and paste is the link to the europa website.

Of course I have thoughts, but I didn't want to turn this into what would become an EU bashing thread. But the obvious conclusion is that the "Precautionary Principle" will result in thousands or even tens of thousands more deaths than would have otherwise occurred if instead the scientific judgement of the European Medicines Agency had been trusted.

Edit: scientific

[weeksy]

The European vaccine rollout failure is a direct result of the application of the "Precautionary Principle" which is a key foundation of the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", 25th March 1957.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... M%3Al32042

Any thoughts or just copy/paste as usual ?

The only copy and paste is the link to the europa website.

Of course I have thoughts, but I didn't want to turn this into what would become an EU bashing thread. But the obvious conclusion is that the "Precautionary Principle" will result in thousands or even tens of thousands more deaths than would have otherwise occurred if instead the scientific judgement of the European Medicines Agency had been trusted.

Edit: scientific

Within reason i have no issues at all with discussions on sensitive subjects, i'd much rather have that than have discussions completely ignored. But you often come in, drop a copy/link in and that's it... I sit and think "FFS man, make a bit of an effort and have an opinion", just quoting something doesn't really portray how you feel or what you think, you may be agreeing, or may be arguing, but who knows.

[Noggin]

Copied from FB, so could be shite...

France’s Prime Minister Jean Castex has announced this evening that the «government’s worst fears are confirmed » concerning the increase in the number of Covid cases which is « looking very much like a third wave ». Castex added that the situation has « deteriorated and intensive care patients are younger than before ».
New measures from midnight tomorrow Friday 19th March, the zones concerned are the île de France, Haut de France, Alpes Maritimes, Eure and the Seine-Maritime which will be in lockdown for four weeks. Schools and essential shops will remain open including bookshops.
Movement in the these zones will require an attestation.Travelling to another region will require a valid reason/obligation such as work.
Sporting activity, going for a walk is allowed with no time limit but is limited to a radius of 10km with an attestation.
The Prime Minister asks for at least four working days from home when possible.
For the whole of France the curfew is moved from 6pm to 7pm from Saturday 20th March.
Finally vaccination - France hopes to have vaccinated by mid April 10 million people. Vaccination with the AstraZeneca vaccine will resume in France tomorrow Friday 19th March following its suspension.

I'm a little surprised by how bad infections are on the mainland but there's too much focus on vaccines and not enough on people mixing freely. I suspect even without vaccines the positions of the UK and EU would be similar to how they are now.

One of the big issues with the French infection rate is that we've just had 3 - 4 weeks of French holidays. With no restriction on where you go. So there was always going to be a 3rd wave after February (Not quite sure why they didn't stop interdepartmental travel, but that would have prevented the Parisians leaving their apartments, so that's probably why!!

On the vaccine, was talking to a nurse yesterday who pointed out that France are behind on the first vaccine but almost the same number of people in France have had the second vaccine as the number in the Uk that have had the second - and with a shorter gap

Her concern with the extension of the gap between the two injections is that , if so many people have the first injection and wait 12 weeks (instead of the original 3 weeks) for the second, it could give the virus time to mutate and become immune the to vaccine.


Pretty much everyone in my region is crossing everything that people are vaccinated and travel is allowed by December. If not, even more businesses/people will suffer

[Yambo]

Agree with the above - the worst is yet to come, I fear. Czechia's infection level in relation to it's population is staggering.

These are yesterdays new cases followed by populations.

• 1 France +34,998 65,376,448
  2 Poland +27,278 37,817,030
  3 Italy +24,935 60,398,370
  4 Germany +17,860 83,974,794
  5 Ukraine +15,053 43,545,901
  6 Czechia +12,003 10,723,142
  7 Russia +9,803 145,979,091
  8 Hungary +6,502 9,642,836
  9 UK +6,303 68,139,835
  10 Spain +6,216 46,767,694
  11 Romania +6,174 19,145,910
  12 Netherlands +6,125 17,161,892
  13 Serbia +5,346 8,712,226
  14 Belgium +5,116 11,625,538
  15 Bulgaria +4,008 6,911,025
  16 Austria +3,357 9,042,968
  17 Greece +3,070 10,386,667
  18 Slovakia +2,040 5,461,528

Your list showing cases as a % of population

• Country Cases Population % of pop
  
   Poland 27,278 - 3781730 - 0.721310088
   Czechia 12003 - 10,723,14 - 0.111935476
  Hungary 6502 - 9,642,836 - 0.067428296
  Serbia 5346 - 8,712,226 - 0.061362045
  Bulgaria 4008 - 6,911,025 - 0.057994292
  France 34998 - 65,376,44 - 0.05353304
  Belgium 5116 - 11,625,538 - 0.044006566
  Italy 24935 - 60398370 - 0.041284227
  Slovakia 2040 - 5,461,528 - 0.037352184
  Austria 3357 - 9,042,968 - 0.037122768
  Netherlands 6125 - 17,161,892 - 0.035689538
  Ukraine 15053 - 43,545,901 - 0.034568122
  Romania 6174 - 19,145,910 - 0.032247096
  Greece 3070 - 10,386,667 - 0.029557124
  Germany 17860 - 83,974,794 - 0.021268287
  Spain 6216 - 46,767,694 - 0.013291226
  UK 6303 - 68,139,835 - 0.009250096
  Russia 9803 - 145,979,091 - 0.006715345

Other ways of looking at the data are available when I get bored again.

[Hoonercat]

The European vaccine rollout failure is a direct result of the application of the "Precautionary Principle" which is a key foundation of the "Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union", 25th March 1957.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... M%3Al32042

Any thoughts or just copy/paste as usual ?

The only copy and paste is the link to the europa website.

Of course I have thoughts, but I didn't want to turn this into what would become an EU bashing thread. But the obvious conclusion is that the "Precautionary Principle" will result in thousands or even tens of thousands more deaths than would have otherwise occurred if instead the scientific judgement of the European Medicines Agency had been trusted.

Edit: scientific

The EMA didn't finish their investigation until yesterday, the likes of Germany, Italy and France were clear that it was only a temp pause until the EMA had finished its investigation. Now that the EMA have given the all clear, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Bulgaria will be resuming with the AZ vaccine.

[irie]

Agree with the above - the worst is yet to come, I fear. Czechia's infection level in relation to it's population is staggering.

These are yesterdays new cases followed by populations.

• 1 France +34,998 65,376,448
  2 Poland +27,278 37,817,030
  3 Italy +24,935 60,398,370
  4 Germany +17,860 83,974,794
  5 Ukraine +15,053 43,545,901
  6 Czechia +12,003 10,723,142
  7 Russia +9,803 145,979,091
  8 Hungary +6,502 9,642,836
  9 UK +6,303 68,139,835
  10 Spain +6,216 46,767,694
  11 Romania +6,174 19,145,910
  12 Netherlands +6,125 17,161,892
  13 Serbia +5,346 8,712,226
  14 Belgium +5,116 11,625,538
  15 Bulgaria +4,008 6,911,025
  16 Austria +3,357 9,042,968
  17 Greece +3,070 10,386,667
  18 Slovakia +2,040 5,461,528

Your list showing cases as a % of population

• Country Cases Population % of pop
  
   Poland 27,278 - 3781730 - 0.721310088
   Czechia 12003 - 10,723,14 - 0.111935476
  Hungary 6502 - 9,642,836 - 0.067428296
  Serbia 5346 - 8,712,226 - 0.061362045
  Bulgaria 4008 - 6,911,025 - 0.057994292
  France 34998 - 65,376,44 - 0.05353304
  Belgium 5116 - 11,625,538 - 0.044006566
  Italy 24935 - 60398370 - 0.041284227
  Slovakia 2040 - 5,461,528 - 0.037352184
  Austria 3357 - 9,042,968 - 0.037122768
  Netherlands 6125 - 17,161,892 - 0.035689538
  Ukraine 15053 - 43,545,901 - 0.034568122
  Romania 6174 - 19,145,910 - 0.032247096
  Greece 3070 - 10,386,667 - 0.029557124
  Germany 17860 - 83,974,794 - 0.021268287
  Spain 6216 - 46,767,694 - 0.013291226
  UK 6303 - 68,139,835 - 0.009250096
  Russia 9803 - 145,979,091 - 0.006715345

Other ways of looking at the data are available when I get bored again.

Thanks for doing what I couldn't be bothered to do.

PS the population of Poland is not 3,781,730 as above, it is 37,817,030 which then makes its infection rate about 0.07%, so Czechia is by far the worst.

[irie]

After saying that the AZ vaccine must not be used for the over 55's, the French health ministry is now saying the AstraZeneca vaccine should only go to those over 55!

https://www.politico.eu/article/french- ... r-than-55/

French authority says AstraZeneca vaccine should only go to those over 55

The health authority justified the decision by pointing out that all three French patients who have suffered blood clots after receiving the vaccine were younger than 55 years old.

To this day, there is no established causality between the vaccine and these blood clots, but health authorities have erred on the side of extreme caution in Europe.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) once again Thursday cleared the vaccine for use without age limits, describing it as "safe and effective."

This is the third time French authorities have changed their recommendation about how to use the AstraZeneca vaccine.

No wonder my French FIL says he doesn't want a jab, he obviously won't know what the fuck is going on.

Obviously Dr Sabine Strauss was wasting her time in the EMA presentation on Wednesday.

Shocking.

[DefTrap]

I'm not over 55 but will happily have Boris's Killer MonkeyJizz vaccine (aka the AZ Vaccine). I had my first jab last Thursday and haven't died, yet.

I don't think it's that surprising that different countries have differing interpretations of 'the data' or their own acceptable level of risk. France, for example, has a recent history of 'troubled' vaccine rollout - so there is extra effort to reassure the public. That's all that's happening here - to give the population the best assurance that these vaccines are safe, so that there the best chance folk will turn up to be vaccinated. It's a marketing exercise, the safety is a bit moot.

[irie]

I'm not over 55 but will happily have Boris's Killer MonkeyJizz vaccine (aka the AZ Vaccine). I had my first jab last Thursday and haven't died, yet.

I don't think it's that surprising that different countries have differing interpretations of 'the data' or their own acceptable level of risk. France, for example, has a recent history of 'troubled' vaccine rollout - so there is extra effort to reassure the public. That's all that's happening here - to give the population the best assurance that these vaccines are safe, so that there the best chance folk will turn up to be vaccinated. It's a quasi-ineffective marketing exercise, the safety is a bit moot.

ftfy

As for safety being "a bit moot", what most people are unaware of is the general incidence of 'clotting problems' in populations. For example:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanr ... od,%C2%B74)%20per%20100%20000.

Over the 3-year period of 2013–15, the average number of deaths from venous thromboembolism in England was 12,640 per annum. Using the raw NHS Outcomes Framework data and population statistics for England in 2018, we calculate a crude annual venous thromboembolism mortality rate of 21·7 (95% CI 21·0–22·4) per 100 000.

Plenty more on the Internet if you care to search for it, such as https://thrombosisuk.org/thrombosis-statistics.php

Edit: even if these estimates are orders of magnitude too high, they still put the risk of VTE into perspective.