Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Horse]

Change the century and you might be into something but I’ll have a soapy no commercial fusion plant will ever exist in our lifetime, if ever.

They must be nearly there by now.

I can remember in about 1970ish, I think it was Tomorrow's World on the BBC, saying that by the year 2000 fusion would make energy as cheap as chips. The BBC wouldn't tell lies.

I remember the programme. It used a bit of music from The Who

[Mr. Dazzle]

I think once mainstream manufacturers, the ones that can actually build cars, throw their hats properly in the ring then we'll have somehting worth driving.

Here you go.

BMW finally unveiled their 'mainsteam' Electric car today.

Upsides
- 366 mile range
- 500bhp
- Looks quite cool (opinions may vary on the schnoz!)
- Built by a company who can actually build cars.

Downsides
- £69k! (TBF this is the top spec/top performance launch model).

First of many though.

[Mussels]

Another small electric car, not just the price stopping me for now.

[Wreckless Rat]

I think what's actually gonna kill fusion is renewable being cheap.

Personally, I think it's more being killed simply by it not working. Even IF they do make it work, which I doubt, the parasitic energy is always going to be crippling. The Sun has one huge advantage, it takes regular old common hydrogen, and has gravity do the work for it. The forces required to overcome the repulsion are staggering, that energy has to come from somewhere - the Sun gets it FOC. The fusion reactors need deuterium and tritium... deuterium is easy to obtain, tritium not so much.

It's also interesting that I read the neutron streams created pretty much kill the materials the reactors are made from, I suspect material sciences will find some solutions for this, but it sounds to me like fusion as great as it sounds, will never be reality. Mankind things he is a master of the universe, when in reality, not so much really. Ya cannae alter the laws of physics.... Jim.

[Horse]

Mankind things he is a master of the universe, when in reality, not so much really.

Men plan, Gods laugh.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The ITER is designed to make Tritium, in a similar sort of way as certain Fission reactors breed more fuel than they use.

It's also worth noting that they're not just starting from nothing, its built on learning from other smaller reactors that produce fusion power, but currently at a net loss. The JET reactor in Oxford has hit a record of Q=0.67, where a Q of 1 would be 'breakeven'. I've heard a lot of people say that "Q>1 isn't even possible on earth" but that kind of overlooks the fact the Fusion weapons have been hitting Qs very much higher than 1 for more than 50 years.

A fusion reactor in Japan has already demonstrated a so called "extrapolated Q" of more than 1...that figure is taken from measuring the Q they get running on Hydrogen and Dueterium then saying "if this reactor was running on Tritium what would the equivalent be?".

None of this proves that Fusion power works of course, its just evidence that its a lot closer than people perhaps realise.

I think the perennial problem has always been cheaper ways of making power, perhaps that will always be the case.

[Wreckless Rat]

To breed tritium to be self sustaining, they need losses of less than 1%... so far the losses are way over 10%, with no obvious way to improve this.

[Horse]

extrapolated

Here we go again ...

[Mr. Dazzle]

If it was obvious every silly cvnt would be doing it

[Cousin Jack]

Here you go.

BMW finally unveiled their 'mainsteam' Electric car today.

Upsides
- 366 mile range
- 500bhp
- Looks quite cool (opinions may vary on the schnoz!)
- Built by a company who can actually build cars.

Downsides
- £69k! (TBF this is the top spec/top performance launch model).

First of many though.

Bit spendy, but the range (as advertised) is OK, and I like the 500 bhp.

Now just solve the charging problem. Remote (from house) parking. And more problems than you can shake a stick at in putting a charge point adjacent to the parking.

My soapy tenner says that, if the 2030 date for no more IC new cars stands, the price of 2nd hand IC cars will rocket. Lots of people have problems with charging, in cities and out in the sticks, and I can't see them being solved by 2030, nor 2050 either.

[Mussels]

This idea of flexible electricity pricing worries me if it's anything like economy seven, I've had that before and there's nothing economical about it due to the much higher rate charged during the day.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Mini announced today that they're not going to sell ICE cars after 2025. Jaguar have already said the same thing.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-bri ... 2025/43897

[Mussels]

Mini announced today that they're not going to sell ICE cars after 2025. Jaguar have already said the same thing.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-bri ... 2025/43897

I read that as they won't introduce any new ice models after 2025 so not quite the same as jaguar's aim.

[Horse]

Volvo too

https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/ ... ic-by-2030

[wheelnut]

Here you go.

BMW finally unveiled their 'mainsteam' Electric car today.

Upsides
- 366 mile range
- 500bhp
- Looks quite cool (opinions may vary on the schnoz!)
- Built by a company who can actually build cars.

Downsides
- £69k! (TBF this is the top spec/top performance launch model).

First of many though.

That looks more like it. Yes it’s spendy, but no more spendy than a Tesla.

[Cousin Jack]

This idea of flexible electricity pricing worries me if it's anything like economy seven, I've had that before and there's nothing economical about it due to the much higher rate charged during the day.

Which is why the industry like smart meters. When a big enough % have them most tariffs will have 'premium' pricing, ie they rip you off when you actually want to use electricity, but will offer very cheap power when you can't use it. This will of course average out by their calculations as a rate cut, but you will pay a lot more.

[Horse]

Which is why the industry like smart meters.

Which, in comparison, make smart motorways actually look relatively smart.

[slowsider]

This idea of flexible electricity pricing worries me if it's anything like economy seven, I've had that before and there's nothing economical about it due to the much higher rate charged during the day.

Which is why the industry like smart meters. When a big enough % have them most tariffs will have 'premium' pricing, ie they rip you off when you actually want to use electricity, but will offer very cheap power when you can't use it. This will of course average out by their calculations as a rate cut, but you will pay a lot more.

What you need is a big battery to store it when it's cheap...

[Rockburner]

This idea of flexible electricity pricing worries me if it's anything like economy seven, I've had that before and there's nothing economical about it due to the much higher rate charged during the day.

Which is why the industry like smart meters. When a big enough % have them most tariffs will have 'premium' pricing, ie they rip you off when you actually want to use electricity, but will offer very cheap power when you can't use it. This will of course average out by their calculations as a rate cut, but you will pay a lot more.

What you need is a big battery to store it when it's cheap...

Like the one sat in the electric car?

[Mussels]

What you need is a big battery to store it when it's cheap...

That's fine as long as the price of electricity genuinely goes down low when there's a glut of electricity available. I suspect it won't, it will just go up at most times.
When I was on economy seven I timed everything I could to run on cheap rate, my reward for that was a significantly higher leccy bill compared to a normal tariff. I guess I could go on economy seven with a power wall or electric car now but I suspect it would still not make economical sense.
The government won't want people producing too much of their own power as it will exaggerate peaks and troughs in power supply, pricing will be designed to keep a mainly steady demand and I think that means people trying to make good use of batteries will be disappointed.