Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[irie]

Now it's Germany, Italy, and France as well as the Netherlands, Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, and Bulgaria.

And now Portugal and Spain.

That's about 300m out of an EU population of about 448m, or about two thirds of the EU population.

Mass hysteria, unbelievable.

[DefTrap]

299,999,999

Because I've had mine. Did I say?

[Mr Moofo]

But nothing to do with the EU's hopeless procurement and roll out processes ??

I dunno, be a dangerous game if it is politics though.

Politicians don't care - providing they can shift blame away from them. That is what Merkel and Macron have to try and do ...

It's the equivalent of a man crawling through the scorching desert, coming to a well offering cool, refreshing water at the bottom and turning his nose up as the bucket looks a bit grubby....

Exactly this ....
The blood clotting figs are below those expected in a normal distribution ( unless that has changed recently) - but it is very convenient to hide behind when your bureaucracy has not delivered what the people need. And if all less fails, blame Britain ...

[Tricky]

Now it's Germany, Italy, and France as well as the Netherlands, Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, and Bulgaria.

And now Portugal and Spain.

That's about 300m out of an EU population of about 448m, or about two thirds of the EU population.

Mass hysteria, unbelievable.

Agreed - I had my first dose yesterday at a mass vaccination centre (Aylesbury University), was a very slick and efficient process and I was talking to the bloke managing the entry there- he was saying how much hassle they've been getting there the last couple of days from people arriving and trying to insist on Pfizer, them trying to explain / put things in context and people walking out when they find that the only option there is the AZ saying they won't have it as they'll get blood clots, so much so that now they are not bothering to try and explain and are asking whether you have an objection to receiving AZ as the very first thing before they even ask your name.
All very sad IMO.

[Supermofo]

Now it's Germany, Italy, and France as well as the Netherlands, Ireland, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, and Bulgaria.

And now Portugal and Spain.

That's about 300m out of an EU population of about 448m, or about two thirds of the EU population.

Mass hysteria, unbelievable.

Agreed - I had my first dose yesterday at a mass vaccination centre (Aylesbury University), was a very slick and efficient process and I was talking to the bloke managing the entry there- he was saying how much hassle they've been getting there the last couple of days from people arriving and trying to insist on Pfizer, them trying to explain / put things in context and people walking out when they find that the only option there is the AZ saying they won't have it as they'll get blood clots, so much so that now they are not bothering to try and explain and are asking whether you have an objection to receiving AZ as the very first thing before they even ask your name.
All very sad IMO.

Yup. If this is incorrect info (and we don't know for sure yet, but we also know there is no hard evidence yet either) then the damage is going to be massive. There will by the gap in vaccination until deemed safe, but that will be the tip of the iceberg.

Is there any truth in the Pfizer vaccine also having instances of clots? I've seen few things on social media claiming that the instances of clots in vaccinated people is pretty much the same for both vaccines but only the AZ one put on hold. I've no idea if these numbers are true or not though?

I do know twitter is full of anti vaccers and people saying they won't have the AZ vaccine now. Not helpful. I've even seen African's stating that the AZ vaccine is useless and being dumped on them as it doesn't work and citing European bans as evidence. This is serious stuff with huge implications 'If' this is all found out to be false.

[Yambo]

It's a repeat of the MMR vaccine thing.

Make a statement, make it convincing, don't bother with evidence and watch the sheep run.

The bigger the lie, the better.

[Taipan]

Friend of the wife is 52 and in good health. He got his jab weeks ago!

[Supermofo]

Friend of the wife is 52 and in good health. He got his jab weeks ago!

I had my AZ jab on the 3rd. So far touch wood, all good.

[gremlin]

I had my AZ jab on the 3rd. So far touch wood, all good.

Well there's a positive side effect.

[DefTrap]

I had mine last Thursday (did I say?) but have always been a clot.

[irie]

... This is serious stuff with huge implications 'If' this is all found out to be false.

It has been found to be false.

http://news.sky.com/story/who-reassures ... s-12247481

European regulator says 'no indication' Oxford-AstraZeneca jab is cause of blood clots.

WHO's chief scientist [Emer Cooke] says "we do not want people to panic" as no association has been found between blood clots and jabs so far.

But the damage is done.

It's a repeat of the MMR vaccine thing.

Make a statement, make it convincing, don't bother with evidence and watch the sheep run.

The bigger the lie, the better.

This ^^^

To put this into perspective, friend of mine (retired Consultant surgeon) just said:

People having thrombotic and haemorrhagic events all the time. The two are the complete opposite; one is too much clotting, the other too little.

37 cases out of 17M vaccinations according to AZ, is a drop in the ocean.

[Supermofo]

Even the very pro EU Guardian is suspicious
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... he-science

Problem is the damage is done.
First the 60% efficiency was banded about making it sound crap compared to the Pfizer (and proved to be bollocks in real world use)
Then a load of countries banning it's use in oldies or saying it didn't work
Then the EU vs AZ barney
Now this. I mean Italy has prosecutors on the case!

And the knock on is what Tricky has mentioned. This week was supposed to have seen a massive surge in vaccination, now we've got people walking out of the vaccination centres.

You'd be hard pushed to make this more of a fuck up than it is.

Makes you wonder if the world would have been able to eradicate smallpox if they tried it now.

[Noggin]

This is from a friend who lives out here. Pretty sure he got his first but he is desperate for the vaccinations to be done just so he can go out and hopefully gig again without fear (he's not been anywhere in a year - he's 75 with a couple of underlying conditions so is being careful. But he has put into words what a lot of us are thinking

I am incandescent with rage!!!!
Like 17 MILLION (LIKE MILLION!!!!!) Doses of AZ vaccine and there are like 30 (Maximum! Possible unproven might be an issue) adverse reactions & the fuckwits are so scared of the Antivax lobby that they pull the vaccine (even if only for 48 hours hopefully) IT IS TOTALLY FUCKING INSANE!!!!

I have just done the calculation on my comp and there is a 0,00017% chance of an adverse reaction.

EXCUSE ME Taking a fuking ASPRIN has a +2% probability of serious adverse reaction (about .5% fatal if untreated by emergency services) so we are talking about a safety measure over a vaccine that is 11,764 yes ELEVEN THOUSAND (and 764) times safer than a bloody aspirin!!!!

In the middle of a lethal pandemic where if you get the damn disease you are likely to Die or be Impaired for LIFE!!!!!

FOR WHY???????!!!!!

BECAUSE SOME IDIOT KUGEL SHIT FOR BRAINS "I SORT OF BELIEVE IN HOMEOPATHY YOU KNOW...." Space cadets have enough media power and presence to stop governments in their tracks!

One day I am going to find that Doctor Wakefield and I swear I will demand the fucker be burned at the stake!!!!

Makes you wonder if the world would have been able to eradicate smallpox if they tried it now.

Nah, pretty sure everyone would die



I'm pretty livid too (but don't express myself half as well as an angry south african jew!!) - seeing my chances of getting it going further away. Mainly cos the bastard doctor up here won't administer them

[Hoonercat]

... This is serious stuff with huge implications 'If' this is all found out to be false.

It has been found to be false.

http://news.sky.com/story/who-reassures ... s-12247481

European regulator says 'no indication' Oxford-AstraZeneca jab is cause of blood clots.

WHO's chief scientist [Emer Cooke] says "we do not want people to panic" as no association has been found between blood clots and jabs so far.

But the damage is done.

The words 'so far' and the fact that the EMA are still investigating doesn't = it has found to be false, the EMA are due to release it's findings on Thursday at which point we'll probably see AZ vaccines resumed (going by their current info). Even WHO are saying 'As of today, there is no evidence that the incidents are caused by the vaccine'.
The EMA have been investigating a specific batch after 4 people in Austria suffered blood-related issues. That same batch was delivered to 17 EU countries, and while I agree that a complete pause of the AZ vaccine is overkill, I can understand why many countries have paused using that specific batch.

[Yambo]

That same batch was delivered to 17 EU countries, and while I agree that a complete pause of the AZ vaccine is overkill, I can understand why many countries have paused using that specific batch.

You are clearly far more astute than I am because I fuckin' can't.

[irie]

This is from a friend who lives out here. Pretty sure he got his first but he is desperate for the vaccinations to be done just so he can go out and hopefully gig again without fear (he's not been anywhere in a year - he's 75 with a couple of underlying conditions so is being careful. But he has put into words what a lot of us are thinking

I am incandescent with rage!!!!
Like 17 MILLION (LIKE MILLION!!!!!) Doses of AZ vaccine and there are like 30 (Maximum! Possible unproven might be an issue) adverse reactions & the fuckwits are so scared of the Antivax lobby that they pull the vaccine (even if only for 48 hours hopefully) IT IS TOTALLY FUCKING INSANE!!!!

I have just done the calculation on my comp and there is a 0,00017% chance of an adverse reaction.

EXCUSE ME Taking a fuking ASPRIN has a +2% probability of serious adverse reaction (about .5% fatal if untreated by emergency services) so we are talking about a safety measure over a vaccine that is 11,764 yes ELEVEN THOUSAND (and 764) times safer than a bloody aspirin!!!!

In the middle of a lethal pandemic where if you get the damn disease you are likely to Die or be Impaired for LIFE!!!!!

FOR WHY???????!!!!!

BECAUSE SOME IDIOT KUGEL SHIT FOR BRAINS "I SORT OF BELIEVE IN HOMEOPATHY YOU KNOW...." Space cadets have enough media power and presence to stop governments in their tracks!

One day I am going to find that Doctor Wakefield and I swear I will demand the fucker be burned at the stake!!!!

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Staggering incompetence.

[Supermofo]

I'm pretty livid too (but don't express myself half as well as an angry south african jew!!) - seeing my chances of getting it going further away. Mainly cos the bastard doctor up here won't administer them

The sad thing is you won't get it when you want it! Feels like we live in very strange times.

Sounds like there is some divided opinion in German/Italy, not so much in France but sounds like the French are far more vaccine sceptical
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... rd-vaccine

But Karl Lauterbach, a qualified doctor and a health spokesman for the Social Democrats, called the vaccine pause a “mistake” that would threaten more lives than it might save. “We know that these complications are very serious, but we also know that they are extremely seldom and this needs to be weighed up. The damage that is done to the reputation of this vaccine will be irreparable … we are in the middle of a third wave of this pandemic, so to pause this vaccine will have serious consequences and it will be extremely hard to restore faith in it,” he said.

“I am perplexed and embittered,” Alessio D’Amato, the health councillor for the Lazio region, told Corriere della Sera, adding that he couldn’t understand on what grounds Aifa arrived at its decision. “The situation is dramatic … I’m concerned about the climate of mistrust and doubt, the suspicion and fear that will be generated in people regarding a vaccine on which Italy has focused a lot.”

Italy registered 15,267 coronavirus infections on Monday and 354 deaths. Aifa’s chief, Nicola Magrini, told La Repubblica that its decision was a “political one”, while adding that the vaccine was “safe” and the benefit-to-risk ratio “widely positive”. He said eight people had died and four more suffered severe side-effects after receiving the vaccine in Italy.

[Dodgy69]

Got mine Sunday, gonna get some aspirin in.

[Saga Lout]

This is from a friend who lives out here. Pretty sure he got his first but he is desperate for the vaccinations to be done just so he can go out and hopefully gig again without fear (he's not been anywhere in a year - he's 75 with a couple of underlying conditions so is being careful. But he has put into words what a lot of us are thinking

<snip>

EXCUSE ME Taking a fuking ASPRIN has a +2% probability of serious adverse reaction (about .5% fatal if untreated by emergency services) so we are talking about a safety measure over a vaccine that is 11,764 yes ELEVEN THOUSAND (and 764) times safer than a bloody aspirin!!!!

<snip>

Makes you wonder if the world would have been able to eradicate smallpox if they tried it now.

Nah, pretty sure everyone would die



I'm pretty livid too (but don't express myself half as well as an angry south african jew!!) - seeing my chances of getting it going further away. Mainly cos the bastard doctor up here won't administer them

I know some children have an adverse reaction to aspirin which is why junior aspirin was withdrawn from sale but for the vast majority of adults aspirin is as safe as ibuprofen or paracetamol. Any medicine that induced an adverse reaction in 2% of people would not have lasted as long as aspirin has unless there were absolutely no alternatives.

[irie]

... Aifa’s chief, Nicola Magrini, told La Repubblica that its decision was a “political one”, while adding that the vaccine was “safe” and the benefit-to-risk ratio “widely positive”. He said eight people had died and four more suffered severe side-effects after receiving the vaccine in Italy.[/i]

Hundreds of times, and more likely thousands of times, more people than above will die as a result of these "political" decisions.

Saw an epidemiological calculation that each day delay in vaccination would likely result in an additional ~15 deaths per 100,000 un-vaccinated people. Doesn't sound much until you do a bit of elementary arithmetic.