The Oulton Assassin

[Noggin]

Pretty much how it would be, I’m sure if the one knocked off here decided to go for a claim it could be easily proven the rider who hit them wasn’t riding within the rules. Surprised it hasn’t been done, maybe it isn’t that easy and it would probably end Trackdays

I doubt it would end track days. It might make the organisers say in small words very loudly that if you ride like a c*nt and cause an incident like the one in the video after the TDO have requested everyone ride within certain rules (not the right word, but can't think of it right now), then as a result, the TDO will not be responsible for a claim where the rider was not adhering to the guidelines/rules

It might make them pull the people out of the wrong groups faster/more often as there are often the wrong people in lower groups; and might also make riders not go or not go mad on track.

But I don't see how the TDO can be held responsible as there are clear guidelines/rules laid down at every briefing - and that move she pulled was well out of spec

The big issue would be proof. In this case someone videoed it. That wouldn't be the case for every incident so then it could get more argy bargy.

EDIT : I know the TDO disclaimer isn't worth the paper etc - but if a customer is riding totally against how the TDO instructed in the briefing, how can the TDO be held responsible??

I guess in the same way the forestry commission can be sued when kids build mtb jumps on their property and someone gets hurt. The organiser can never be free from blame in law

Ok. I hadn't really thought of it like that. Seems bloody stupid but hey ho. Law is an arse or something??!

[Dodgy69]

You do get many different HP bikes at Trackdays, and in novice, so straight line speed can vary massively as we all know. The overtake of camera bike is tight for track space but she seems to pull left as down bike moves right ready for the left hander. Yep, if it was me, I'd be pissed off aswel.

[weeksy]

You do get many different HP bikes at Trackdays, and in novice, so straight line speed can vary massively as we all know. The overtake of camera bike is tight for track space but she seems to pull left as down bike moves right ready for the left hander. Yep, if it was me, I'd be pissed off aswel.

I think the pull left is a natural instinct after going almost on the grass, just a knee jerk reaction of pulling it back, but at speed the distance looks longer.

I think it was a crappy crappy thing, but a mistake.

The problem comes with accountability. The rider HAS to be accountable for that, but the fact is, currently they're not. Whether that will ever change, I don't know. But it's not the first and won't be the last.

The problem is, where do you draw the line here.

Tricky for example had a rider drop a sump plug in front of him at Brands. He was covered from head to toe in oil, everywhere. He was exceptionally lucky not to crash. But if he had crashed and written off his bike, is that Trickys fault, the other bike, the mechanic who fitted the sump plug, or?

If someone crashes into a turn and the bike slides out, but ends up back on the track and takes someone out, who's to blame?
What if we then find they crashed because of a brake failure? What if that was caused by the crashers mate fitting his wheel previously? Or if he'd only bought the bike the day before?

It's not just a rabbit hole we're going down here, it's a whole field full of different rabbit holes.

[Cousin Jack]

I have seen similar, perhaps not quite so blatant, videos of track day mayhem.

That's why I don't do trackdays. Yes, it is a rabbit hole of problems, I don't need problems.

[Skub]

If you are planning on being a track day regular it's a good idea to use a bike you don't mind crashing.
Taking your pride and joy is asking for it,imo.

The cost of running a dedicated track bike is the number one reason I've not enjoyed more track days,though it's still a cheaper option than parcelling a 20k road bike!

[Dodgy69]

Just to add...I do think these incidents are very rare , I've never seen anything like this in my limited experience. In general, I would say trackdays are still very safe, keeping within your limits and taking care with overtakes can be done. Personally, I would be happy to take any bike on track and if they're are any dangerous riders circulating, hopefully they would be pulled by the marshals or pointed out by others.

[weeksy]

Just to add...I do think these incidents are very rare

I'd absolutely agree. Having this video as a decision upon your go or no-go for doing a trackday is like watching the one from Philip Island where Bayliss gets hit by a seagull and saying "i'm not doing trackdays because i may get taking out by a low flying seagull".... Sure, you may do, but it's damn unlikely.
These incidents are rare for sure, that is i guess why they're discussed.

[Scotsrich]

The guy was moving to the right but if the overtaking bike had kept to her line she would have been through.

She started moving across before she was even up to him.

A pretty careless move and worse if she was an experienced trackdayer.

[Horse]

is like watching the one from Philip Island where Bayliss gets hit by a seagull and saying "i'm not doing trackdays because i may get taking out by a low flying seagull".... Sure, you may do, but it's damn unlikely.
These incidents are rare for sure, that is i guess why they're discussed.

Two on-road birdstrikes in umpty thousand miles over 40 years. They're rare. Mind you, a track near the seaside might increase the chances

[Noggin]

Isn't part of the issue the lack of apology/responsibility?

If she'd have gone and apologised and even offered something - possibly not full value but something - towards the bike then the video probably wouldn't have been doing the rounds still

I do realise that this would open her up to legal proceedings but from what I've seen at trackdays, in general people know that there is a risk and an apology is the biggest thing that smooths things. And she did royally fuck up

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

If you are planning on being a track day regular it's a good idea to use a bike you don't mind crashing.
Taking your pride and joy is asking for it,imo.

The cost of running a dedicated track bike is the number one reason I've not enjoyed more track days,though it's still a cheaper option than parcelling a 20k road bike!

It's why I use a tatty FZR400 that cost me £1200, you can avoid the idiots in front of you, but you can't do anything about the twats overtaking.

[weeksy]

If you are planning on being a track day regular it's a good idea to use a bike you don't mind crashing.
Taking your pride and joy is asking for it,imo.

The cost of running a dedicated track bike is the number one reason I've not enjoyed more track days,though it's still a cheaper option than parcelling a 20k road bike!

It's why I use a tatty FZR400 that cost me £1200, you can avoid the idiots in front of you, but you can't do anything about the twats overtaking.

You're very much in the minority though, there's are LOT more £6000+ bikes than there are £1200 bikes, heck there's more £15,000 bikes than £1200 bikes these days.

[Noggin]

If you are planning on being a track day regular it's a good idea to use a bike you don't mind crashing.
Taking your pride and joy is asking for it,imo.

The cost of running a dedicated track bike is the number one reason I've not enjoyed more track days,though it's still a cheaper option than parcelling a 20k road bike!

It's why I use a tatty FZR400 that cost me £1200, you can avoid the idiots in front of you, but you can't do anything about the twats overtaking.

You're very much in the minority though, there's are LOT more £6000+ bikes than there are £1200 bikes, heck there's more £15,000 bikes than £1200 bikes these days.

A friend had a 1098s (might have been the 1198s, not sure) which he took to Pembrey (pretty sure it was Pembrey). He went to go around the outside of a group on a corner giving the group loads of space and someone on the corner went down and took his best mate down too. He avoided the first bike, hit his best mate and his 1098 went tumbling onto the grass
TBF, he was more upset at the injuries to his best mates legs than his bike. But he was totally out of the way, avoiding getting close to anyone and an incident that had nothing to do with him trashed his and his mates bikes and cause his mate to have two broken legs.

It is a risk. I always took my road bike but was much more comfortable when I had a second bike and could have one as a track bike!!

[Rockburner]

I've not done trackdays for a while, so I'm no aware of the current 'rules', but what would have happened if that crash had been during a race? Would the rider have been censured or would it have been a 'racing incident'?

[Noggin]

I've not done trackdays for a while, so I'm no aware of the current 'rules', but what would have happened if that crash had been during a race? Would the rider have been censured or would it have been a 'racing incident'?

But it's different for trackdays. You are specifically told in the briefing - it is not a race and give people space. It's just that some people don't think that applies to them!!

[weeksy]

I've not done trackdays for a while, so I'm no aware of the current 'rules', but what would have happened if that crash had been during a race? Would the rider have been censured or would it have been a 'racing incident'?

I've had worse done to me racing, Gerrards, fast sweeping right hander, picking it up on the exit and the run down to Edwinas, sitting in 3rd/4th place and some guy whacked me on the inside, flipping the bike and myself at about 120mph, bike tumbled down the track, needing a new tank, fairing, subframe and frame. I got a broken hand/wrist.... Nothing happened to the guy, not even a discussion. He didn't come over to apologise although we suspect one of his mates did. He was lucky as it was over the far side of the track so none of the pit-crew saw him, otherwise we'd have been having a discussion in the pits, i was very very angry.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

If you are planning on being a track day regular it's a good idea to use a bike you don't mind crashing.
Taking your pride and joy is asking for it,imo.

The cost of running a dedicated track bike is the number one reason I've not enjoyed more track days,though it's still a cheaper option than parcelling a 20k road bike!

It's why I use a tatty FZR400 that cost me £1200, you can avoid the idiots in front of you, but you can't do anything about the twats overtaking.

You're very much in the minority though, there's are LOT more £6000+ bikes than there are £1200 bikes, heck there's more £15,000 bikes than £1200 bikes these days.

I know, and a lot of the riders appear to have egos to go with them, it's one of the reasons I stay in Novice group, the riding is less predictable but the people are nicer.

Looking at the video, it looks like she's riding too fast for the group and is focused on the corner rather than paying attention to other riders, it would be okay in a race but not on a track day, she's an idiot, the incident could easily have been avoided by waiting and passing on the corner exit.

[Couchy]

I've been knocked off once on a trackday and had to go to hospital, the guy who did it came and apologised, loaded my van and offered to pay for the damage and luckily I had no broken bones.

This video is me on the SV and the footage was sent to me after, the CBR600 t-boned me in the middle of craner curves, I stayed on somehow and as you can see he didn't and wrote his bike off. Didn't come and apologise either. TBH had I come off and got hurt I'd have gone to see a solicitor for advice. There's a lot of dickhead riding on trackdays, lots of bravado and 'rubbing is racing' comments. But it's not racing and those making the comments don't race. On the whole they're still relatively safe but the dickhead element is more than it was years ago

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

That was an idiot overtake, I don't know if he'd have got round the corner without the collision

[Couchy]

That was an idiot overtake, I don't know if he'd have got round the corner without the collision

I'd caught and passed him 2 corners before so who knows what he was doing tbh. I was lucky he wasn't but all his own doing