Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[Docca]

so it's probably key to remember here that stats will only form part of the answer.

You can have low numbers who've had the AZ who have had clots compared to national average for clots, but those with clots from AZ may never have experienced a clot IYSWIM.

Hence the need for further investigation checking against medical history etc.

Stats are almost meaningless in isolation.

[DefTrap]

Well I had my AZ shot (probably the only one in France) on Thursday and despite being laid low with headaches and grotty between 12-36 hours after I didn't clot to death.

Anecdotal evidence is the best evidence, right?

[weeksy]

Well I had my AZ shot (probably the only one in France) on Thursday and despite being laid low with headaches and grotty between 12-36 hours after I didn't clot to death.

Anecdotal evidence is the best evidence, right?

Try not to croak it over the weekend

[Mussels]

so it's probably key to remember here that stats will only form part of the answer.

You can have low numbers who've had the AZ who have had clots compared to national average for clots, but those with clots from AZ may never have experienced a clot IYSWIM.

Hence the need for further investigation checking against medical history etc.

Stats are almost meaningless in isolation.

That would be true if the number of vaccines given was low. If ten people are given the vaccine and one develops clots then that 10% rate is not reliable but as the numbers go up it becomes more reliable so 32 cases out of 18 million is a pretty solid figure. If that is the same rate as the non-vaccinated population then even if AZ is causing them in some people it must be preventing them in others.
The issue I suspect is a mixture of not knowing the rate in non-vaccinated people and wanting a bogeyman for political reasons.

[Horse]

so 32 cases out of 18 million is a pretty solid figure. If that is the same rate as the non-vaccinated population then even if AZ is causing them in some people it must be preventing them in others.
The issue I suspect is a mixture of not knowing the rate in non-vaccinated people and wanting a bogeyman for political reasons.

Would that need additional qualifying by equivalent age & 'underlying health conditions' (if that's how people have been selected for vaccination)?

[Mussels]

so 32 cases out of 18 million is a pretty solid figure. If that is the same rate as the non-vaccinated population then even if AZ is causing them in some people it must be preventing them in others.
The issue I suspect is a mixture of not knowing the rate in non-vaccinated people and wanting a bogeyman for political reasons.

Would that need additional qualifying by equivalent age & 'underlying health conditions' (if that's how people have been selected for vaccination)?

Not really in this case, both blood clots and vaccinations are more likely in older people so results will both be skewed in the same direction. If there's a big difference then it's worth looking more closely.
The question should be how many people have died from vaccination side effects compared with how many are saved by the vaccination, difficult if the results are close but I doubt they will be.
Focusing on blood clots where one person has died out of 18 million seems a bit odd.

[DEADPOOL]

My take on this "story" is the EU are flexing their muscles. "We only have to mention a concern and we can destroy you".

A disgusting display of politics. The EU as a political movement is on its last legs and they just shot themselves in the foot. Again.

How long can they keep limping along threatening the UK with their "power" when they just look weaker and more desperate every time they pull a trick like this...

[irie]

My take on this "story" is the EU are flexing their muscles. "We only have to mention a concern and we can destroy you".

A disgusting display of politics. The EU as a political movement is on its last legs and they just shot themselves in the foot. Again.

How long can they keep limping along threatening the UK with their "power" when they just look weaker and more desperate every time they pull a trick like this...

The EU will go on doing exactly the same and limping along if only because most* EU countries don't have their own currency and are effectively prisoners of the Euro.

* Those that have their own currencies are Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Sweden.

[demographic]

So its OK to fire fully headlong into Euro and Brexit arguments without people complaining its away from the vaccine topic now?

Just so the rules are clear?

[Noggin]

So its OK to fire fully headlong into Euro and Brexit arguments without people complaining its away from the vaccine topic now?

Just so the rules are clear?

Personally I don't see the point of the Euro & Brexit arguments, especially on this thread. But then I didn't and still don't see the point of Brexit, so I guess I should butt out!!

[DefTrap]

So its OK to fire fully headlong into Euro and Brexit arguments without people complaining its away from the vaccine topic now?

Just so the rules are clear?

You can't criticise Brexit. It's just not allowed.
If you live outside the UK and criticise Brexit it's really not allowed.
But you can say what TF you like about the EU, fair game.

Pretty much covers it.

<whine> <whine> etc
But the weather's lovely.

[demographic]

So its OK to fire fully headlong into Euro and Brexit arguments without people complaining its away from the vaccine topic now?

Just so the rules are clear?

You can't criticise Brexit. It's just not allowed.
If you live outside the UK and criticise Brexit it's really not allowed.
But you can say what TF you like about the EU, fair game.

Pretty much covers it.

<whine> <whine> etc
But the weather's lovely.

Well, that does seem to be the case.
Trade with Europe is down by 68% but the weathers nice eh?

Can't see that hurting the economy...

[irie]

My take on this "story" is the EU are flexing their muscles. "We only have to mention a concern and we can destroy you".

A disgusting display of politics. The EU as a political movement is on its last legs and they just shot themselves in the foot. Again.

How long can they keep limping along threatening the UK with their "power" when they just look weaker and more desperate every time they pull a trick like this...

The EU will go on doing exactly the same and limping along if only because most* EU countries don't have their own currency and are effectively prisoners of the Euro.

* Those that have their own currencies are Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, and Sweden.

So its OK to fire fully headlong into Euro and Brexit arguments without people complaining its away from the vaccine topic now?

Just so the rules are clear?

Personally I don't see the point of the Euro & Brexit arguments, especially on this thread. But then I didn't and still don't see the point of Brexit, so I guess I should butt out!!

As you can see, I pointed out, in reply to what DEADPOOL said, a key reason why the EU will be able to carry on doing what it is doing now.

Oh, and as it happens, I did not mention Brexit, both of you did!

[demographic]

Still fighting Thatcher

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HMcAAOSw ... s-l300.jpg

[Hoonercat]

My take on this "story" is the EU are flexing their muscles. "We only have to mention a concern and we can destroy you".

A disgusting display of politics. The EU as a political movement is on its last legs and they just shot themselves in the foot. Again.

How long can they keep limping along threatening the UK with their "power" when they just look weaker and more desperate every time they pull a trick like this...

Two countries within the EU have paused the AZ rollout, hardly an EU conspiracy. Maybe Norway, Iceland and Thailand are all in on it as well

[Horse]

You're quoting a story back from the first week of February that said because of disruption the movement of freight was allegedly down up to 68% in January. It was a political story by a Hauliers trade union and picked up by some rags with headlines like "Fury at Gove".

It's now the middle of March and even back when the story was punted out (according to Reuters) "...freight movements are now close to normal levels, despite the COVID-19 pandemic,”.

Indeed. Let's have some up to date, official, trade figures:

UK goods exports to the European Union fell 40.7% in January, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), while imports tumbled 28.8%.

The figures show the biggest drop since records began in 1997, and are the first since new trading rules between the UK and the EU came into force.

Although:

The ONS said temporary factors were likely to be behind much of the falls.

However, that's trade, not freight, which will have reduced for at least the reason that there are new direct ferries from Ireland to France.

In the week to 22 February, freight volumes on Stena Line ferries from the Republic of Ireland to GB were down 49% compared to the same week last year, while volumes going directly to France were up 102%.

[Horse]

Sorry

[demographic]

Indeed. Let's have some up to date, official, trade figures:

UK goods exports to the European Union fell 40.7% in January, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), while imports tumbled 28.8%.

The figures show the biggest drop since records began in 1997, and are the first since new trading rules between the UK and the EU came into force.

Although:

The ONS said temporary factors were likely to be behind much of the falls.

However, that's trade, not freight, which will have reduced for at least the reason that there are new direct ferries from Ireland to France.

In the week to 22 February, freight volumes on Stena Line ferries from the Republic of Ireland to GB were down 49% compared to the same week last year, while volumes going directly to France were up 102%.

Oh well, that's waaaay better and the UK's trade figures are looking much better now.
Things are looking up.

[DEADPOOL]

Two countries within the EU have paused the AZ rollout, hardly an EU conspiracy. Maybe Norway, Iceland and Thailand are all in on it as well

I can’t understand why people like you keep wanting to find conspiracy theories about everything.

The EU fucked up their pre order for AZ then suddenly, they make spurious claims about its efficiency which affected the vaccine uptake across the whole of Europe. If that wasn’t enough, they go on to publicise an equally disingenuous “report” suggesting the AZ vaccine causes blood clots when there is no statistical evidence for this whatsoever.

It smacks of sour grapes and their political shenanigans are literally killing people.

[weeksy]

Two countries within the EU have paused the AZ rollout, hardly an EU conspiracy. Maybe Norway, Iceland and Thailand are all in on it as well

I can’t understand why people like you keep wanting to find conspiracy theories about everything.

You actually wrote that?