Hub Centre Steering

[Mr. Dazzle]

I was actually gonna mention those mice as an example of what I mean by "you've learned to do it that way".

A colleague of mine had one that was mostly like a normal mouse, but turned 90° so the right side of your hand (if you're right handed) was against the desk. Other than that it was fairly mouse like.

As someone who's been using a mouse for what.....30 years I guess....it was really really hard to use. He was quite right that it felt more comfortable and was technically better, but I just couldn't get on with it.

Ditto with those weird 'bent' kegboards.

[Skub]

Like guitars with true temperament frets. Messes with my head.

[Horse]

Ditto with those weird 'bent' kegboards.

Got one of them too

When you're used to them, then have to use a rectangular keyboard, you realise and feel how your arms have to contort.

[Cousin Jack]

Got one of them too

When you're used to them, then have to use a rectangular keyboard, you realise and feel how your arms have to contort.

I've used one, but couldn't get my head bent into shape. My arms however bend quite nicely.

[Horse]

I'm sure you only headbutt the keyboard when posting here. It should be fine the rest of the time

[Mr. Dazzle]

Like guitars with true temperament frets. Messes with my head.

I've never seen one of those before, that's really cool. Does require all your band mates to have true temperament or fretless instruments though?

[JackyJoll]

Like guitars with true temperament frets. Messes with my head.

Ok, it’s truer to pitch on a good day, but you’re pressing strings down with your fingers. Finger pressure in any direction alters the pitch.

Tonight I arpeggiated F, Em, Dm7, G+, C, as an intro to a crass country song and it sounded ok.

How much better would it have been on wiggly frets?

[Bigjawa]

It's true that Telelever 'lengthens' the wheel base as the suspension compresses (because of the geometry involved), but I think that the Hossack/Duolever system doesn't. It might not shorten the wheel base 'as much', but I'm pretty sure the movement of the wheel is 'upwards', not 'forwards' (like Telelever).

FWIW, IIRC the head angle on the BMW K1200R is bloody steep, steeper than most forked bikes. (and steeper than the K1200S, interestingly).

You can brake all the way through a corner with most all of the 'different' front ends, I believe it's because the suspension and steering forces are separated.

I thought they all has the same frame? It certainly doesn't turn in like a bike with a steep head angle.

TBH the biggest compliment I can give to the Duolever is that for 99% of the time you don't know its there, although I do find that the K12 is very sensitive to tyre pressures and does have a tendency to run wide on the comfort setting on the ESA although this might just be my brain making me think I'm riding a cruiser.

Yep.

Certainly from a 'going round in circles as fast as possible' is concerned the good old telescopic fork has light years of development over any other method of de-furring a feline. If the boffins in the prototype class thought there was any advantage to adopting any variation of the tele-lever setup,they'd be putting in the hours to make it work.

I'm old enough to recall Ron Haslam and the Honda ELF bike. The rocket put in some decent results in the 3 years he spent developing the bike,yet here we are in 2021 and the pinnacle of roundy,roundy bikes still use telescopic forks. Go figure.

On a road bike,I can understand manufacturers being unwilling to be too radical,as Yamaha discovered they don't sell very many.
To non riding folk,bikers may appear to be devil may care type,rebellious and out there,but the reality is quite the opposite,when it comes to standing out from the crowd,most prefer not to in case someone laughs at them for being different.

Like the old Betamax/VHS thang of yesteryear,sometimes it's not always the best idea which gets used.

PS...where is Voyager when you need him.

IIRC the biggest problem with the ELF was that RH was decking the front swinger in corners and the single brake disc would overheat. Plus none of the big manufacturers would run a proper R&D programme.

Yamaha completely fucked up the GTS, I think it was a detuned EXUP engine, weighed about the same as the QE2, had no built in luggage and cost a fortune, they also forgot that for the same money you could get a Pan European. Maybe if they had made some sort of EXUP based sportsbike with the HCS, they would have sold more. Steve Lindsell put a YZF750 motor in one, dumped about 12 stone of flab off it and finished something like 4th or 6th in the F1 TT behind some very quick boys on RC45s, so on a quick road setting, the idea has some merit.

[MingtheMerciless]

I remember some bloke racing a heavily modified GTS at the TT, (PB ran a feature, it might even have been the same guy) I seem to remember the limiting factor was the front swinger-arm touching down when cornering hard.

I would have the H2 motor Tesi in a heart beat if I won the lottery.

[Skub]

Like guitars with true temperament frets. Messes with my head.

I've never seen one of those before, that's really cool. Does require all your band mates to have true temperament or fretless instruments though?

Basically it's fixing something which isn't broken,though it does look broken.

[Mr. Dazzle]

TBF nudging the tuning a bit based on what you're paying is "legit", although far beyond necessary at my level. So it IS a problem that needs fixing in the 'extreme' cases.

[demographic]

I remember some bloke racing a heavily modified GTS at the TT, (PB ran a feature, it might even have been the same guy) I seem to remember the limiting factor was the front swinger-arm touching down when cornering hard.

I would have the H2 motor Tesi in a heart beat if I won the lottery.

I remember that, did they call the article The Barge?

[Bigjawa]

I remember some bloke racing a heavily modified GTS at the TT, (PB ran a feature, it might even have been the same guy) I seem to remember the limiting factor was the front swinger-arm touching down when cornering hard.

I would have the H2 motor Tesi in a heart beat if I won the lottery.

I remember that, did they call the article The Barge?

Same bike IIRC, although PB also had a reader's special based on a Spondon "Barge" frame, which I'm pretty sure was one of only 5 or 6 ever made.

[Rockburner]

Everyone learns on a forked push bike for 15 years first though.

Oddly though, "bendy pole" bicycle suspension would increase the wheelbase as the poles flex. (the bend in solid bicycle forks is forwards)

[Mr. Dazzle]

If you can feel that you're basically Bradley Wiggins though

I made him some handlebars once, they were naffing stiff for that reason.

[Horse]

Everyone learns on a forked push bike for 15 years first though.

Oddly though, "bendy pole" bicycle suspension would increase the wheelbase as the poles flex. (the bend in solid bicycle forks is forwards)

How would the forces need to be applied to flex the wheel forward? Just because a pre-formed bend is that way, doesn't mean that's how it would go, especially if distortion happened higher.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Thats just the way the fork has a propensity to bend/deform. If you imagine just splatting a bike down onto the road the wheels would go forwards and backwards front and rear respectively.

I suppose the fork has a lower bending than axial stiffness.

[Horse]

I was thinking more of under braking or side loads.

FWIW, my old R100RT would twist its forks enough when cornering for the drilled discs to 'hum'.

[demographic]

Same bike IIRC, although PB also had a reader's special based on a Spondon "Barge" frame, which I'm pretty sure was one of only 5 or 6 ever made.

I remember that as well, did the extrusions extend in front of the headstock slightly?
FZR engine maybe?

I used to have about fifteen years worth of PB mags in a box (like everyone I knew) but moved house a few times and got shot of em.
Must admit that Franklin editing them was a bit of a downturn for me cos it was like reading Loaded and all a bit lad mag wanky.

[Bigjawa]

Same bike IIRC, although PB also had a reader's special based on a Spondon "Barge" frame, which I'm pretty sure was one of only 5 or 6 ever made.

I remember that as well, did the extrusions extend in front of the headstock slightly?
FZR engine maybe?

I used to have about fifteen years worth of PB mags in a box (like everyone I knew) but moved house a few times and got shot of em.
Must admit that Franklin editing them was a bit of a downturn for me cos it was like reading Loaded and all a bit lad mag wanky.

I think it was an oil boiler but you're right, the extrusions went into a cross member and the headstock was behind that. It was a beast of a thing.