Hub Centre Steering

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Pretty sure with Hossack / Saxtrax / Duolever front ends that wheelbase stays the same regardless of wheel position and that the wheel does travel upwards under braking.

[Whysub]

Back when my brother was running a dealership, he took one like this in, made by Tony Foale. I was able to take it for a ride, but very much like riding a bike and sidecar for the first time, it was mentally exhausting after about 200 yards, as it was just so different from a "normal" bike.

It was the position of the throttle and bars that did for me. Never saw another one, never saw anyone riding one either. Wonder if it and the few others I believe were built are still around?

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It attracted lots of attention in the shop, but he eventually decided to sell it when he got an offer he just couldn't turn down. Think he sold it to someone fairly famous.

[Horse]

Pretty sure with Hossack / Saxtrax / Duolever front ends that wheelbase stays the same regardless of wheel position and that the wheel does travel upwards under braking.

I had a go on an old BMW which IIRC leading ljnk forks, there was little or no dive under braking. The owner had warned me because, with that reduction in feedback, the temptation is to squeeze harder ...

[Horse]

@Whysub

It was designed in conjunction with Superbike magazine, it was the Mk 2 version. A handful were built.

More on the website.

[Rockburner]

Pretty sure with Hossack / Saxtrax / Duolever front ends that wheelbase stays the same regardless of wheel position and that the wheel does travel upwards under braking.

Correction - the weight transfer might engender a suspension compression under braking - but it's not the braking itself that will cause suspension compression (per se). The braking won't affect the suspension at all (apart from having the effect of causing weight transfer)

[Whysub]

@Whysub

It was designed in conjunction with Superbike magazine, it was the Mk 2 version. A handful were built.

More on the website.

Thanks-I'll check that out. That would be when Superbike was run by Tony Middlehurst? Great magazine back then, good bunch of journalists from what I remember of them at their "Ultimate Streetbike" stuff at Santa Pod.

[Horse]

Gawd knows!

From memory, TF built the Mk1, which was more sports tourer. Mk2 was sportier. Magazine had a competition for bodywork designs around the C frame plates etc.

[Whysub]

Gawd knows!

From memory, TF built the Mk1, which was more sports tourer. Mk2 was sportier. Magazine had a competition for bodywork designs around the C frame plates etc.

I sort of remember the competition they ran.

I can only say that twisting a vertical throttle is so much more difficult than twisting one that is horizontal. Scarily so!

[Skub]

I think conventional forks have had 70 odd years of R&D by a lot of suspension companies so "funny" front ends are always playing a lot of catchup despite all the touted advantages. You've also got a lot of inertia in the industry for tele's as well as riders not wanting to change/getting burnt as early adopters.

Yep.

Certainly from a 'going round in circles as fast as possible' is concerned the good old telescopic fork has light years of development over any other method of de-furring a feline. If the boffins in the prototype class thought there was any advantage to adopting any variation of the tele-lever setup,they'd be putting in the hours to make it work.

I'm old enough to recall Ron Haslam and the Honda ELF bike. The rocket put in some decent results in the 3 years he spent developing the bike,yet here we are in 2021 and the pinnacle of roundy,roundy bikes still use telescopic forks. Go figure.

On a road bike,I can understand manufacturers being unwilling to be too radical,as Yamaha discovered they don't sell very many.
To non riding folk,bikers may appear to be devil may care type,rebellious and out there,but the reality is quite the opposite,when it comes to standing out from the crowd,most prefer not to in case someone laughs at them for being different.

Like the old Betamax/VHS thang of yesteryear,sometimes it's not always the best idea which gets used.

PS...where is Voyager when you need him.

[Horse]

Gawd knows!

From memory, TF built the Mk1, which was more sports tourer. Mk2 was sportier. Magazine had a competition for bodywork designs around the C frame plates etc.

I sort of remember the competition they ran.

I can only say that twisting a vertical throttle is so much more difficult than twisting one that is horizontal. Scarily so!

Which is why the Voyager had 'trigger' throttle.

Visible here:
http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/Voyager03/Voyager.pdf

Although, guessing, it had a footbrake.

[Skub]

Visible here:
http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/Voyager03/Voyager.pdf

I was really surprised to see the Voyager weighed 215kgs. I had imagined it to be a lot heavier....or is that dry weight?

[Horse]

Visible here:
http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/Voyager03/Voyager.pdf

I was really surprised to see the Voyager weighed 215kgs. I had imagined it to be a lot heavier....or is that dry weight?

It looks like quite an imposing 'bulk' - but there's a lot of hollow space (luggage space, effectively a massive touring fairing around the front).

They chose the Reliant engine because it's- apparently - one of the most compact blah blah (stuff I can't remember).

[Mr. Dazzle]

Or it was the only one they could secure a supply deal for

Have to admit I'd love a go though.

[Cousin Jack]

When something is deeply ingrained like forks it takes a lot to shift it.

Magazines don't like the look of it, because it is different
Riders don't like the look, and are reluctant to try it.
Racers have oodles of experience they are reluctant to abandon that
Riders don't like it because racers don't use it.
Manufacturers don't build it because riders don't buy it

It is all a self-perpetuating circle.

Just like the stick/control yoke in aeroplanes UNTIL fighter g-forces became so high that sidesticks offered a real advantage. Now they are in most airliners and no doubt will be fitted in light aircraft if/when anyone actually designs and builds modern ones.

One day perhaps something will change (electric bikes ??) that will confer a real advantage to hub-centre steering. Then it will change.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Everyone learns on a forked push bike for 15 years first though.

[Horse]

Or it was the only one they could secure a supply deal for

Have to admit I'd love a go though.

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/Voyage ... m#February


Of the in-line engines, sundry all-alloy car engines do exist, but, as with all new engines, initial cost is high and, things being what they are, component life should at least be scrutin­ised. Two ail-alloy car engines have been around for some time, however. Both are British and both produce outputs in the right area. They are the Reliant 850 and the Imp engine. Of the two, the Imp is much more interesting, being a Coventry Climax inspired ohc design that in its time was totally radical. Nowadays, being obsolete, spares are going to be harder to find and dearer, and surviving examples could be getting a bit fragile, the long-standing criti­cism of this motor. The Reliant is more sensible. A cruder design with much more development behind it, the standard version seems unbreakable, and God knows I've tried. Performance equipment is available as a result of the motor's use by the 750 racing club and there are dealers everywhere. This is an impressive list of secondary advantages, offset primarily by the need to make a final drive unit

[Horse]

Just like the stick/control yoke in aeroplanes UNTIL fighter g-forces became so high that sidesticks offered a real advantage

Do you use a typical mouse for your computer?

Try one of these:

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/company-u ... or%20clean.

[Cousin Jack]

Do you use a typical mouse for your computer?

Try one of these:

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/company-u ... or%20clean.

Interesting. The mouse is a PITA for extended use, the problem is that the trackball/trackpad/IBM stick thingy are all worse.

£92.26

[Whysub]

The Hillman Imp engine was fragile from the start, forever blowing head gaskets for fun. My brother had one, and soon became very quick at removing the engine, before carefully rebuilding it. Still blew the head gasket (and on the several replacement engines he got for it).

Many Imp engines ended up in racing outfits as they could be tuned and gave a good power to weight figure and they were compact and also cheap.

Can't be too many Imp engines left out there, compared to the Reliant 750 and 850 motors.

[Horse]

Do you use a typical mouse for your computer?

Try one of these:

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/company-u ... or%20clean.

Interesting. The mouse is a PITA for extended use, the problem is that the trackball/trackpad/IBM stick thingy are all worse.

£92.26

I have mine because of RSI in index & middle fingers, from years of extensive mouse use.

Yes, expensive, but the option is pain.

But if you're doing any sort of graphics stuff, get a cheap graphics tablet.

Edit: £51 for wired:
https://www.mypostshop.com/office-equip ... AIQAvD_BwE