Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[Wreckless Rat]

...there are questions being asked of the AZ vaccine where the over 65's are concerned. He states that the UK is in an "extremely difficult health situation", is he wrong? And he also states that he understands why the UK is taking a more riskier approach.

From how I understand it, both the UK regulator and the EU regulator authorised the AZ vaccine based on the same data.
The difference between the UK and EU on approving the vaccine appears to have been the nimbleness of the UK regulator and the difference in supply because of the speed of the purchase agreement and production support of the UK gov.

As it is, the EU regulator has approved the AZ vaccine for all over 18, including 65 and over.
The biggest risk is not getting the vaccines out fast enough...in that respect the UK has followed a much less risky path.

It is useful to bear in mind that In terms of the effectiveness being 95%, or 90% or 80% or 70%, or even 60%, each of the AZ, Pfizer, Moderna vaccines are reckoned to be 100% effective against hospitalisation and death as a result of the current Covid-19 strains.

The EU has been shown to be bureaucratic, slow, vindictive and incompetent.
If Boris had shown the same level of incompetence, then ordered a raid of a vaccine manufacturer, that has worked tirelessly to come up with an effective Covid-19 vaccine and provide it at no-profit, and then slap export authorisations on the whole sector, especially without recourse to Parliament, I don't think his position would have been tenable.

I'm glad we're out of it.

I think I said it before. It makes you wonder if it was the other way around, ie Britain now scratching around for vaccine supplies, demanding EU countries give us there supplies and threatening to steal previous orders placed in the UK from EU countries, whether all these people saying its the right thing would be siding with HMG or saying its all their fault and they should be hung...

[DEADPOOL]

Someone should write a book. Have to go in the fiction section coz no-one would believe it: a French firm (Valneva) will also be delivering vaccines to the UK first. Based in Paris, apparently the UK confirmed an order back in September. The EU haven't even spoken with the company yet!

Did you see that on a YouTube vid?

https://valneva.com/press-release/valne ... candidate/

Valneva in Advanced Discussions with European Commission to Supply up to 60 Million Doses of Inactivated, Adjuvanted COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate

Yes. Good point. My info (or sudden revelation) is a couple of weeks out of date. The perils of YouTube "news".

Thing is, this "story" is not carried on the mainstream channels (well, it wasn't when I wrote this) so having dug this out, I am glad for it to be fact checked. Seems the UK are 3-4 months ahead of EU procurement this time. Are we seeing a trend here?

[slowsider]

...there are questions being asked of the AZ vaccine where the over 65's are concerned. He states that the UK is in an "extremely difficult health situation", is he wrong? And he also states that he understands why the UK is taking a more riskier approach.

From how I understand it, both the UK regulator and the EU regulator authorised the AZ vaccine based on the same data.
The difference between the UK and EU on approving the vaccine appears to have been the nimbleness of the UK regulator and the difference in supply because of the speed of the purchase agreement and production support of the UK gov.

As it is, the EU regulator has approved the AZ vaccine for all over 18, including 65 and over.
The biggest risk is not getting the vaccines out fast enough...in that respect the UK has followed a much less risky path.

It is useful to bear in mind that In terms of the effectiveness being 95%, or 90% or 80% or 70%, or even 60%, each of the AZ, Pfizer, Moderna vaccines are reckoned to be 100% effective against hospitalisation and death as a result of the current Covid-19 strains.

The EU has been shown to be bureaucratic, slow, vindictive and incompetent.
If Boris had shown the same level of incompetence, then ordered a raid of a vaccine manufacturer, that has worked tirelessly to come up with an effective Covid-19 vaccine and provide it at no-profit, and then slap export authorisations on the whole sector, especially without recourse to Parliament, I don't think his position would have been tenable.

I'm glad we're out of it.

The UK indemnified the manufacturer from legal claims if the vaccine caused medical issues. The EU didn't.
The manufacturer found that it had fewer supplies than promised available to the customer who had secured a lower unit price and declined to indemnify it.

[DEADPOOL]

The UK indemnified the manufacturer from legal claims if the vaccine caused medical issues. The EU didn't.
The manufacturer found that it had fewer supplies than promised available to the customer who had secured a lower unit price and declined to indemnify it.

An interesting spin but what makes you say "fewer supplies than promised"?

What number and timescale for delivery do you refer to? The dates/timescales are redacted from anything I have seen. Plus of course you use the word "promised" quite provocatively when the contract famously says "best efforts".

[irie]

It looks like there may be people that survive this pandemic because of Brexit, particularly old folk that are vulnerable and need a vaccine.
It's almost like those wise old coots knew what they were voting for

As said before, a perfect demonstration of serendipity in action.

[Kneerly Down]

The UK indemnified the manufacturer from legal claims if the vaccine caused medical issues. The EU didn't.

How very big of the EU not to indemnify a company that moved heaven and earth to get a vaccine at record speed that it provides at no profit!

[Wreckless Rat]

I think I said it before. It makes you wonder if it was the other way around, ie Britain now scratching around for vaccine supplies, demanding EU countries give us there supplies and threatening to steal previous orders placed in the UK from EU countries, whether all these people saying its the right thing would be siding with HMG or saying its all their fault and they should be hung...

You know as well as I do that there are people that wish BJ would monumentally fuck up, even if it means thousands of lives, just so it fits their narrative.

It looks like there may be people that survive this pandemic because of Brexit, particularly old folk that are vulnerable and need a vaccine.
It's almost like those wise old coots knew what they were voting for

True, it's also worth noting, the most vocal, in the main, seem to be those living in EU countries..... one might think we can taste sour grapes.

[slowsider]

The UK indemnified the manufacturer from legal claims if the vaccine caused medical issues. The EU didn't.

How very big of the EU not to indemnify a company that moved heaven and earth to get a vaccine at record speed that it provides at no profit!

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

[Mussels]

The UK indemnified the manufacturer from legal claims if the vaccine caused medical issues. The EU didn't.

How very big of the EU not to indemnify a company that moved heaven and earth to get a vaccine at record speed that it provides at no profit!

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

The difference in price is probably because the UK insisted vaccines were manufactured in the UK, after they saw how the EU blocked PPE exports last year.

[Kneerly Down]

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

Maybe it's because it is more expensive to produce the, say, FIRST 100 million doses rather than the NEXT 300 million doses?

[irie]

How very big of the EU not to indemnify a company that moved heaven and earth to get a vaccine at record speed that it provides at no profit!

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

The difference in price is probably because the UK insisted vaccines were manufactured in the UK, after they saw how the EU blocked PPE exports last year.

And as said earlier in this thread:

This bloke points out that Astrazenica is getting a much higher price ( for the vaccine) from the UK than the EU ...

I think it's worth pointing out that whereas the EU has ordered 400m (?) doses from AstraZeneca, the UK has ordered 100m (?) doses so the UK would of course expect to pay a higher unit cost than the EU.

[DEADPOOL]

I think the "non profit" claim also ignores the million (billions?) these companies received as a development grant.

Nothing is truly as black or white as it may be painted. Hindsight is a wonderful tool with which any one of us might have done "a lot better" but in the real world, everyone (EU and UK) is running around trying to make the best of a bad situation.

[Supermofo]

Sounds like the Kent variant has been eating to much Biltong. Which could be pants, so we might have to amend the vaccines sooner rather than later.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55900625

And the Russian vaccine works which is good news. And appears to work really well.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55900622

[gremlin]

Oddly, Mrs. Gremlin has been given an appointment for a jab....

Not sure why. She has been volunteering for those shielding, but wouldn't have thought that would be a reason.

[slowsider]

How very big of the EU not to indemnify a company that moved heaven and earth to get a vaccine at record speed that it provides at no profit!

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

The difference in price is probably because the UK insisted vaccines were manufactured in the UK, after they saw how the EU blocked PPE exports last year.

That doesn't even seem like half an argument. Are you saying that Big Pharma in the UK has higher costs?
And IIRC the PPE exports were coming from China?

[slowsider]

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

It's not about the money though is it, it's all about saving lives.

Seems that if you have the money, you get the doses. That's certainly the case for Israel.

[slowsider]

Big Pharma, altruistic to the last !
Curious how the eu and UK seem to have a different no-profit price.

The difference in price is probably because the UK insisted vaccines were manufactured in the UK, after they saw how the EU blocked PPE exports last year.

And as said earlier in this thread:

This bloke points out that Astrazenica is getting a much higher price ( for the vaccine) from the UK than the EU ...

I think it's worth pointing out that whereas the EU has ordered 400m (?) doses from AstraZeneca, the UK has ordered 100m (?) doses so the UK would of course expect to pay a higher unit cost than the EU.

Why would it pay a higher unit cost if it's actually no-profit ?

You can wait until that is quoted too.

[Kneerly Down]

Why would it pay a higher unit cost if it's actually no-profit ?

You can wait until that is quoted too.

No-one publicly knows how much the UK, or the US are paying for the AZ vaccine.
We only know how much the EU are paying because a member of the Belgian government breached confidentiality clauses...in all the vaccine supply contracts.

According to AstraZeneca, the EU claim that it pays less than the UK for each vaccine dose, and that is why the company is ‘working harder for the UK than for the EU’, is ‘completely incorrect’. The company reportedly offers the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs.

AZ did say that no country will pay more than $3 / £2.25 but that was the maximum cost.

[slowsider]

Why would it pay a higher unit cost if it's actually no-profit ?

You can wait until that is quoted too.

No-one publicly knows how much the UK, or the US are paying for the AZ vaccine.
We only know how much the EU are paying because a member of the Belgian government breached confidentiality clauses...in all the vaccine supply contracts.

According to AstraZeneca, the EU claim that it pays less than the UK for each vaccine dose, and that is why the company is ‘working harder for the UK than for the EU’, is ‘completely incorrect’. The company reportedly offers the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs.

AZ did say that no country will pay more than $3 / £2.25 but that was the maximum cost.

Vaccine prices reported by the Washington Post and the BBC in December indicate Israel is paying significantly more for the Pfizer vaccine than either the US or the European Union.

The Washington Post reported at the time that the US was paying Pfizer/BioNTech $19.50 per dose while the EU 27-country bloc was paying $14.76. It cited Moderna vaccine prices as $15 per dose for the US and $18 per dose for the EU.

The figures were based on EU prices that were tweeted — and then deleted — by a Belgian government official as well as calculations from Bernstein Research, an analysis and investment firm.

The BBC reported a day earlier that Pfizer was marketing its vaccines to countries at a price range of $10.65 to $21 per dose, while Moderna’s range was $25 to $37 per dose.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-sa ... -vaccines/

[Yambo]

I have no idea what the UK are paying AZ for a dose and neither do I know what the EU negotiated to pay AZ for a dose. It has been made clear though that the UK are buying at cost price so if the EU are getting it cheaper than they have negotiated for AZ to make a loss on the 300 million doses or whatever they've ordered.

I find it difficult to believe that AZ are intending to make a loss on such a big order so I'm minded to think that both the EU and the UK are paying much the same price although with no indemnity clause in their contract then that is how they are getting it 'cheaper'. I suspect that there's just a wee bit of gamesmanship going on over the 'price' because quite simply, that's the EU way.

Now if one of you know the exact price each partner is paying or the exact amount AZ are going to get from the UK and Eu respectively then tell us or Id' be inclined to further suggest that you are playing the precise game that the EU want you to play.