Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[weeksy]

lets all have a weekend off

I've had enough for one week.

[weeksy]

Ok. Threads reopened. If it turns to a shit fest, well, I won't hesitate.

[Wreckless Rat]

Well nice to see pretty much the world agreeing the EU was being a twat, and them backing down.

[Yambo]

To be fair, it wasn't the EU being a twat, it was the EU Commission led by the completely unelected Ursula von de Leyen.

Plenty of people within the EU expressed dissatisfaction at the Commission's actions.

[Wreckless Rat]

That’s a fair summary yes.

[demographic]

This bloke points out that Astrazenica is getting a much higher price ( for the vaccine) from the UK than the EU and whilst greatly revising the amount that the EU get down they have revised the amount of vacinne the UK gets UP.
Then the EU, (more specifically one politician in the EU comission*) spat the dummy and started going on about restricting the vaccine over here.
Thing is, the UK gov has been restricting the amount of some of the drugs used to treat people who are already ill from leaving the UK? Is that correct?

I have to admit that from a purely selfish way some of this means my 87 year old mother has had her first shot likely a bit sooner but it does seem that Astrazenica has made a decision for profit then the media and various politicians have been a bit naughty.
I'm not sure about the full facts, this bloke admits there's a lot to find out also but it does seem that nobody is looking good on this one.



*I've just edited this a bit for spelling and to say one politician instead of the whole EU, personally I feel thats done for accuracy, YMMV.

[Wreckless Rat]

I dunno - it’s hard to see how Boris can look bad out of this unless he really fucks up.

Boris couldn’t have asked for a better Brexit advert, or indeed a better result from his earlier bad results. The EU commission, and by default, the EU itself, has come out of this looking terrible.

[Cousin Jack]

Boris threw money at AZ and other companies, it wasn't his money but he dished it out without hesitation

The EU were uber-cautious and took 3 months longer to negotiate a cheaper contract.

As it happens, Boris was right and the EU were over-cautious, but it could have gone the other way with Boris spending our money like water with no return.

Two lessons to be learned.

• In some circumstances a decision is needed, the right decision is best but any decision is better than prevaricating
  
  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Mr Moofo]

To be fair, it wasn't the EU being a twat, it was the EU Commission led by the completely unelected Ursula von de Leyen.

Plenty of people within the EU expressed dissatisfaction at the Commission's actions.

And let's hope that comes back to haunt her - she wasn't democratically elected - but a shoe-in by Merkel. She now needs to be accountable for several very bad decisions

[Wreckless Rat]

To be fair, it wasn't the EU being a twat, it was the EU Commission led by the completely unelected Ursula von de Leyen.

Plenty of people within the EU expressed dissatisfaction at the Commission's actions.

And let's hope that comes back to haunt her - she wasn't democratically elected - but a shoe-in by Merkel. She now needs to be accountable for several very bad decisions

Love your optimism.

[Kneerly Down]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

2020 vision eh.

I reckon VDL saw this thread was locked and thought it was an opportunity to sneakily invoke Article 16.

[Kneerly Down]

Thing is, the UK gov has been restricting the amount of some of the drugs used to treat people who are already ill from leaving the UK? Is that correct?

Not if they are meant for markets abroad:

Exporting medicines meant for markets abroad
You can continue to export medicines on the restricted medicines list that are manufactured and intended for markets abroad. The restrictions do not apply.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/parallel-ex ... t-or-hoard

Though I'm sure it'll be widely misrepresented for political purposes.

[Kneerly Down]

..

[Wreckless Rat]

that 20/20 vision argument can be made about lockdown and just about all of it. Had it turned out like so many previous viral scares, Germany may well have been suffering badly economically and we could have been sitting pretty. It didn't go that way and it turned out that Boris called it wrong. With this, the egg could have been on Boris' face. It didn't turn out that way....

All of the moves by all governments have been best guesses, a punt, an educated punt in some aspects, a wild stab in the dark in others. Some of these have worked out, some not. For example, the early lockdowns clearly worked, the better trace and trace clearly worked, early medical intervention (Germany) clearly lowers death rates, the relaxation over Xmas, was clearly a mad move by just about all countries - but lets face it, people would have met up at Xmas anyway - the amount of folks I know that broke even the relaxation was astounding.

Amazingly, without actually doing much in the argument, Boris as come out looking far better than the EU, the A.16 move by the EU was a massive own goal, it beggars belief someone suggested it, let alone ran with it. What's more, it has ensured the EU has now backed itself into a corner .

[Mussels]

I was interested to see that despite Trump's posturing on covid being a small thing the US government invested heavily in vaccines and is also in a good place.
Maybe if the new strains hadn't appeared none of this would have been news and the EU would be saying how wonderful it is that they saved money.

[DEADPOOL]

This bloke points out that Astrazenica is getting a much higher price ( for the vaccine) from the UK than the EU and whilst greatly revising the amount that the EU get down they have revised the amount of vacinne the UK gets UP.

An interesting spin on the situation but I rather look at it from a more factual position.

The UK ordered 100m shots and paid a premium price. AZ takes the order and promises to deliver.

Three months later and before they have even authorised the use of this vaccine, the EU say we want 300m shots to which AZ reply (since they already have an order for 100m) ok but we'll have to agree in writing in the contract "best reasonable efforts".

This page seems to sum it up: https://www.brownejacobson.com/health/t ... 19-vaccine

"Clause 5.1 says that AstraZeneca shall use “Best Reasonable Efforts” to manufacture the “Initial Europe Doses” within the EU to distribution hubs within a redacted timeline."

Note that the initial EU doses are manufactured in the EU where they are having some trouble scaling up production. Then:

"Clause 5.4 says that AstraZeneca has to use “Best Reasonable Efforts” to manufacture the Vaccine within the EU and the UK
"

Due to the 5.1 clause, the 5.4 "include the UK produced vaccine" clause is inferior and does not specify a number.

It's certainly not a simple cut and dried case and I can see a valid moral argument for both sides but cold hard logic tells me the UK order is superior and arguably should be satisfied before any reduction is made to fulfil any subsequent order. Clause 5.1 specifically excludes the UK production facility being used to supply EU initial orders.

Having said all that, there is an opportunity for some cooperation here. Stop nicking cheese and ham sandwiches at the border and we'll start thinking about cooperating with vaccine supply.

While that might be presented as holding the EU to ransom, we have a confirmed supply of vaccines, the EU wants some, they need to stop being such cunts. Ideally that would apply to EU trade more generally because recent events have thrown a harsh light on the entire European Union experiment. Yes they can punish errant countries but can they deliver a positive benefit...

[Mussels]

Can you really see Brussels saying "we screwed up badly and would like your help"?
It won't happen as the UK supply is a drop in the ocean in Europe, they know it and this is all a badly failing effort to save face.

[irie]

All of the moves by all governments have been best guesses, a punt, an educated punt in some aspects, a wild stab in the dark in others. Some of these have worked out, some not.

This one worked - very interesting.

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-reje ... y-12204044

COVID-19: Rejected contracts and a Hollywood movie - how UK struck deal to guarantee vaccine supply
The government is confident over its supply of vaccines - but things could have been very different.
...
Yet from the very start there was a focus on vaccines. According to the former adviser, the DHSC started work on it in January, before there was even a case of COVID-19 in the UK.

Back then, scientists said it was unlikely a vaccine would be developed within 18 months, let alone a year - and that they would probably be around 50% effective when they arrived. Yet, encouraged by Mr Hancock, the Department for Health pushed ahead, in order to make sure everything was ready for the moment the vaccine arrived.

"Every extra day it takes to deliver a vaccine comes with a human cost and an economic cost," Mr Hancock told officials in April. "I don't care if people think it's years away - every day we save now is lives we will be saving in a year's time."

Every process had to be accelerated. At one internal meeting in April, a group of vaccine officials were asked to assume that the vaccine would arrive in a year's time. For that scenario to play out well, what would they need to be doing now?

The replies, said one person who was present, were "mind-blowing". One expert warned that there would almost certainly be a shortage of glass vials. Another said that production would be difficult. A third raised the issue of supply chains.

The normal way of doing things would be to fix these issues once the vaccine was ready. But these weren't normal times - so the government determined to resolve them in advance.

Production lines were worked out. Arrangements were made for vaccine "fill and finish". Suppliers for glass vials were found and contracts were secured.

At the same time, officials realised that although there was a Therapeutics Taskforce, overseeing the search for and deployment of treatments for COVID-19, there was no comparable body for vaccines. The Vaccine Taskforce was set up: a month later, Kate Bingham was appointed as its head, and given the task of ordering the vaccines themselves.
...

[Mussels]

There's light at the end of the tunnel.

Public Health England's Dr Susan Hopkins expects to start seeing the impact of the vaccine over the next two weeks
The NHS will be under pressure with Covid patients until at least the end of March, she says

[weeksy]

There's light at the end of the tunnel.

Public Health England's Dr Susan Hopkins expects to start seeing the impact of the vaccine over the next two weeks
The NHS will be under pressure with Covid patients until at least the end of March, she says

I don't think anyone really doubts it's getting better and continue to do so now, it just seems to be dragging.