What 4x4 For 4K

[Slenver]

I was thinking of this thread as I drove the wife's CRV into work this morning. I was paying particular attention to the gear changes and apart from one or two occasions I didn't feel any gear changes whatsoever. Smooth as silk. No lag from pull away. Not one iota of bad manners. Way better than the Merc 'box IMO. I was tempted, at one point, to play with the flappy-paddles to shift up and down, but given that the climate control had the temperature just so, the auto seat had adjusted to my comfort setting based on it recognising my key fob and Magic FM was pushing out some wheel-tapping favourite sounds from the ICE system that automatically selects my 6 favourite stations, I decided to just sit and relax instead....

If you're happy driving a Honda shopping trolley around and listening to ladies' radio then I'm happy for you.

Just as long as you acknowledge that YOU'RE THE PROBLEM

It reminds me though of a time a few years back when I had an M3 (manual, obvs). I was living in London at the time and although I realised I could just about afford to buy an oldish M3, it was a nightmare - not really designed for a world of speedbumps, potholes and stop/start traffic. Also, the gearbox exploded and it was in the garage for ages, haemorrhaging my bank account.

The nice people at the garage lent me a Fiesta for the duration - a boggo 1.25. Basic and simple. And it was fucking brilliant. I drove home in it having more fun than I'd had in ages, marvelling at the thought that I could sell my 10 year-old beemer and buy one of these brand new. It even had all the same toys, being so much newer, though in an obviously more plasticky kind of way.

Horses for courses

[Taipan]

I've always driven autos by using my left foot for braking. Stems back to when we used to shunt old carb'ed autos around in the showroom when they're were fast idling on auto choke!

When I had my knee replaced i went to see the surgeon about a week later for a check up. I said to him when can I drive again. He said driving isn't teh problem, its being able to brake hard enough to do an emergency stop that is the issue.I said I have an auto and brake left footed, so I wouldn't have that problem. He was fine with that if I was. Back driving again that afternoon!

[Trinity765]

In my quest for a 4X4 4 4 I have watch an hour of people drive through Rufford Ford

[Asian Boss]

Have you considered a Prius?

[Bigyin]

Interesting how many people are espousing the problems of unsettling a car with an auto gearbox and no-one has mentioned that you have to take a hand off the wheel to change gear in a manual. And no-one brakes left footed in their auto?!

Taking your hand off the wheel to change gear is all done before the corner so no issue at all

As for the car being unsettled I found it a lot on older cars but that was a few years ago and pushing the cars fairly hard . I admit the tech has come a long on since then and accept I need to try some more modern kit to see the improvements

[Mussels]

Can't say I've ever had an auto gearbox change unexpectedly and throw the car 'off balance'.

If you're just mooching along then a change at the 'wrong' moment isn't gonna upset the car. If you're trying to drive quickly then you will paying attention and it's pretty easy to tell when it's gonna shift IME. Besides, you probably shouldn't be exploring the fine 10/10ths limits of balance and grip on the road in a modern fat tyres car anyway

From what I recall, the 8 speed ZF unit in Jags and Beemers won't override the driver in flappy mode either, it will just bounce off the rev limiter/bog down.

Interesting side note for some...AFAIK the dual clutch gearbox came into the mainstream from F1 in the late 90s, but they never actually bothered with the second clutch after testing! They originally had 2 like in a DSG box, but they realised that with sufficiently good control and some clever predictive modelling controllers they could actually be in two gears simultaneously, very very briefly. So they have the same 'double selector' layout but only the one clutch. That's the "seamless shift" tech than also made its way over the MotoGP....not sure if they still have it.

I checked today, if using just flappy paddles it still auto changes when it red lines. I read before it can be stopped with a combination of performance switches but don't remember which.
I've never had it change unexpectedly but if I'm driving quickly I usually have it in a different mode and don't red line it.

[slowsider]

Can't say I've ever had an auto gearbox change unexpectedly and throw the car 'off balance'.

If you're just mooching along then a change at the 'wrong' moment isn't gonna upset the car. If you're trying to drive quickly then you will paying attention and it's pretty easy to tell when it's gonna shift IME. Besides, you probably shouldn't be exploring the fine 10/10ths limits of balance and grip on the road in a modern fat tyres car anyway

From what I recall, the 8 speed ZF unit in Jags and Beemers won't override the driver in flappy mode either, it will just bounce off the rev limiter/bog down.

Interesting side note for some...AFAIK the dual clutch gearbox came into the mainstream from F1 in the late 90s, but they never actually bothered with the second clutch after testing! They originally had 2 like in a DSG box, but they realised that with sufficiently good control and some clever predictive modelling controllers they could actually be in two gears simultaneously, very very briefly. So they have the same 'double selector' layout but only the one clutch. That's the "seamless shift" tech than also made its way over the MotoGP....not sure if they still have it.

I checked today, if using just flappy paddles it still auto changes when it red lines. I read before it can be stopped with a combination of performance switches but don't remember which.
I've never had it change unexpectedly but if I'm driving quickly I usually have it in a different mode and don't red line it.

Iirc its 'Dynamic' on the mode and 'Sport' on the selector.

But I'm not getting out of bed to check.

[Taipan]

Pretty sure my BMW stays in gear in sport/manual mode, but it would change if in normal/manual mode. If I was going to get anywhere near the redline on a long bend i'd just change up with the paddles and it wouldn't upset the handling as its pretty seamless despite not being a dsg! Much better to bring the revs back down into the torque curve anyway, otherwise I expect the traction control would be kicking in?

[Nordboy]

It would take a special car to get me back in a manual gearbox car these days.

I've driven auto's in work for years and the gearboxes have got better and better. The gearbox in my 540i xdrive can change gear much quicker and probably more consistently smoother than I can in a manual. Most of the time, I just like the convenience of not having to change gear.

And, when needed, I don't look at the auto any different from a manual, in that I decide the gear based on speed and flexibility. Most people who drive autos, don't really understand how the boxes work or how flexible and dynamic they can be if used properly.

We also drive manuals as well, as we train our standard response almost exclusively in manuals and start our advanced students off in manual gearbox vehicles before moving to autos.

I don't think I'm a slouch either, when I'm able to. After all, I've had 17 yrs of training and experience driving quickly, at high speed on the road.

[Bigyin]

It would take a special car to get me back in a manual gearbox car these days.

I've driven auto's in work for years and the gearboxes have got better and better. The gearbox in my 540i xdrive can change gear much quicker and probably more consistently smoother than I can in a manual. Most of the time, I just like the convenience of not having to change gear.

And, when needed, I don't look at the auto any different from a manual, in that I decide the gear based on speed and flexibility. Most people who drive autos, don't really understand how the boxes work or how flexible and dynamic they can be if used properly.

We also drive manuals as well, as we train our standard response almost exclusively in manuals and start our advanced students off in manual gearbox vehicles before moving to autos.

I don't think I'm a slouch either, when I'm able to. After all, I've had 17 yrs of training and experience driving quickly, at high speed on the road.

Go back 20 years when i was doing my basic and advanced training for the surveillance role and can you understand my preference for manual over an auto gearbox. To me it was like night and day but i understand things have moved on loads recently

[Trinity765]

I have one concern about the CRV and that's boredom but I can't find, as yet, something very similar with a naughty side that isn't a huge jump in price or literal size. Mitsubishi Shogun? Why not just buy a tank as I'm going to need a ladder and a shove to get into it and a double parking bay at Waitrose. Nissan Patrol? The same and not many about.

I guess if I want the grin factor in my price range, I should be looking at 4X4 estates - which I don't want, even though they do make sense

So, something like a CRV with a bit more spirit - if such a thing exists.

I haven't thought too much about transmission as there are benefits with both (manual/auto) - I've been warned against CVT.

[Mussels]

For most people probably including you and definitely including me when I had one, 4x4s don't make sense.
Think carefully about what you want from one as you might end up with something expensive to drive that you don't like driving. I loved my Grand Cherokee and don't regret it at all, i think you want a proper Range Rover or a similar premium 4x4. Just consider if you want it enough to pay for it.

[gremlin]

For most people probably including you and definitely including me when I had one, 4x4s don't make sense.
Think carefully about what you want from one as you might end up with something expensive to drive that you don't like driving. I loved my Grand Cherokee and don't regret it at all, i think you want a proper Range Rover or a similar premium 4x4. Just consider if you want it enough to pay for it.

In my continuing quest to become the dullest car nerd on this forum, I concur on this 100%. I bought the CRV mainly because I'm a big fan of Honda. I find them bullet-proof in terms of build quality, unassuming and very thoughtfully designed (as I've alluded to in previous posts on this thread, the team that designed the cabin ergonomics of the CRV could piss all the SLK's design team before the Germans had eaten their rye bread and sausage in the morning), but, and there's always a but, despite the 'Eco' setting I always use, I'm still pissing fuel by lugging around a 4WD system that I never really use in a car with the aerodynamics of a fridge freezer. Given my needs, an Accord touring would have suited me way better, only Honda don't make 'em no more, coz everybody wants a pointless 4WD SUV.

Would I buy another SUV? Nope.


Edit: just occurred to me, as I hit Submit, that the CRV has developed its first gremlin in 8 years over the weekend, as the windscreen wipers intermittently cease to work. Bloody annoying as you kind of only needs them in the rain and that's when you discover this fault.
I've ruled out a fuse, as if the fuse had gone it would be 100% not worky, full time. Dodgy relay perhaps?

[MingtheMerciless]

Same symptoms as our X-Trail wipers which turned out to be a poorly sealed wiper motor that eventually fills up with water and shorts out its internal contacts leading to random wiper operation.

[wheelnut]

I've just ordered one of these - will be a bit of a change!

[Wossname]

I loved my Grand Cherokee and don't regret it at all, i think you want a proper Range Rover or a similar premium 4x4. Just consider if you want it enough to pay for it.

For a budget of £4k? I don't think so.

I gave the answer a while ago... Forester.

[gremlin]

I've just ordered one of these - will be a bit of a change!

Do let us know how you get on with the traveller lifestyle, won't you.

[v8-powered]

If they still made them, I'd grab a Lada Niva Cossack.
Off road capability of a Land Rover but half the weight, and actually drive pretty well for something out of the dark ages.

I've owned 2 of them in the past....

[Mussels]

I loved my Grand Cherokee and don't regret it at all, i think you want a proper Range Rover or a similar premium 4x4. Just consider if you want it enough to pay for it.

For a budget of £4k? I don't think so.

I gave the answer a while ago... Forester.

My Jeep was under 3k, admittedly about 8 years old with 90k on the clock but it was in great condition and factory fitted with off-roading armour. As I mentioned previously it was that cheap as nobody wanted the fuel consumption of a 5l V8 4x4. Make your choice to fit your requirements.

[gremlin]

My Jeep was under 3k, admittedly about 8 years old with 90k on the clock but it was in great condition and factory fitted with off-roading armour. As I mentioned previously it was that cheap as nobody wanted the fuel consumption of a 5l V8 4x4. Make your choice to fit your requirements.

As did my one of my ex-colleagues (you know the type, all brains and no common sense) who lived in North London and drove to Wapping every day. Now what car would you pick for that daily schlep through congestion and hideous traffic?

Yep, a Jeep Cherokee 5l V8!

And then had the temerity to complain about the fuel consumption.