Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccine approved

[cheb]

It might just be that the liberal socialist thinkers are wrong and can't yet admit to themselves

[weeksy]

This community probably has to reflect on why it has lost some of the more liberal, socialist thinkers from its ranks. It’s not because those views have somehow become irrelevant, it’s more that the forum- whittled down from VD to TRC to here is almost entirely populated with little-Englanders.

I'm not convinced that's the case, maybe more that the others are being a bit quieter or indeed not even reading this thread. Not everyone on here bothers looking at shit like this or certainly replying to it.

It's 1 thread out of hundreds on here and we have 2-3 threads that are pretty sodding irritating to me as an Admin, but i understand they have their uses in the world. The rest of the forum though is a joy and awesome.

[Wreckless Rat]

You know those red-neck, Southern-State America yobbos that fawn over patriotism in such a skewed way that it makes them sound xenophobic, dehumanised and just a bit silly? That’s some of you lot.

If you cannot start from a place where you consider the well being of all, and by which token we start with the most vulnerable, then I’m afraid that’s quite sad.

I look forward with interest about how we fought in this battle/that contract said this/ etc- but the fact remains, no soon as we leave the EU, some of you are really showing your true colours. This isn’t about us and them, it’s about us and us.

I'm taking a global view on this, you're taking a European view on it and someone else is taking a UK view - and you think that makes them xenophobic.

No, you are choosing to suggest that for typical antagonistic purposes. Because you’re a troll.

I have a global view on this- however the context of this conversation is more EU than global. Be good to get the global view on this though.

Also, wratty- nobody is suggesting UK lives are less important- some might be suggesting they are not more important however ( unless you can prove they are?). Don’t be so ridiculous.

This community probably has to reflect on why it has lost some of the more liberal, socialist thinkers from its ranks. It’s not because those views have somehow become irrelevant, it’s more that the forum- whittled down from VD to TRC to here is almost entirely populated with little-Englanders.

I would be offended, but I'm not sure you know the actual meaning to "little-englander"

You know what Doc, if the EU had gone about this differently, I would have a different view on it, but it still think it controls the UK. I'm amazed some folk can't see the EU is not much more than the 4th Reich by the back door. If I were in charge right now, I would cancel the pfizer order for breach of contract, and block exports to the EU of AZ and Nov vaccines. Concentrate in supporting the NHS even more to ensure we slam-dunked the inoculation of the UK population.

[Docca]

It might just be that the liberal socialist thinkers are wrong and can't yet admit to themselves

Yay! High-five points score


If you look at the VD Facebook membership- there are a lot on there that used to post ...who aren’t registered here , whose views wouldn’t chime with what’s left posting here.

[weeksy]

It might just be that the liberal socialist thinkers are wrong and can't yet admit to themselves

Yay! High-five points score


If you look at the VD Facebook membership- there are a lot on there that used to post ...who aren’t registered here , whose views wouldn’t chime with what’s left posting here.

whats the solution ?

[irie]

... more liberal, socialist thinkers ...

Quality conflation of liberal and socialist which of course is intended to imply that only socialists can be liberal.

As it happens I am liberal but I am not a socialist.

Edit: underline "not"

[slowsider]

If you consider why the EU "we're all in it together" boys club actually came about it would tell you everything you need to know about the intentions of the EU.

A key factor was maintaining a grip on power as European empires started to fade.
The European whiteys were not having that other countries wanted control over business and commerce...and indeed their own people and land, so they created their own superpower to try to maintain control. Control of the Suez in Egypt was a good example - how dare Egypt want control of their own land.

So the UK trying to break away from a European superpower created to maintain control is never going to go down well.

Suez was the UK, France and Israel. The US knocked it on the head.
The EU came about to stop France and Germany squabbling over strategic resources of coal and steel.

[Wreckless Rat]

Suez was the UK, France and Israel. The US knocked it on the head.
The EU came about to stop France and Germany squabbling over strategic resources of coal and steel.

...and now they are ganging up to hoard strategic resources away from others, vaccines.

[irie]

Let's stay with vaccines, pretty please.

[DEADPOOL]

It might just be that the liberal socialist thinkers are wrong and can't yet admit to themselves

Yay! High-five points score

If you look at the VD Facebook membership- there are a lot on there that used to post ...who aren’t registered here , whose views wouldn’t chime with what’s left posting here.

That observation it itself should set the alarm bells jangling. Why is it do you think that the formerly robust conversations we all used to have on VD never appear on FaceBook?

Answer: big tech have entire teams of censors monitoring discussions. Freedom of expression has come to mean freedom to be excoriated, cancelled, sacked and potentially prosecuted for thought crime.

[slowsider]

Suez was the UK, France and Israel. The US knocked it on the head.
The EU came about to stop France and Germany squabbling over strategic resources of coal and steel.

...and now they are ganging up to hoard strategic resources away from others, vaccines.

Hang on a sec, and check your bias. Aren't they under-resourced, which is why they don't want EU production exported? ? Isn't the one hoarding strategic resources the one with weekly supplies of 2m doses, (which you described as prolly more than they can use) ??

[Cousin Jack]

That observation it itself should set the alarm bells jangling. Why is it do you think that the formerly robust conversations we all used to have on VD never appear on FaceBook?

Answer: big tech have entire teams of censors monitoring discussions. Freedom of expression has come to mean freedom to be excoriated, cancelled, sacked and potentially prosecuted for thought crime.

We have Mr Weeks, who can and will intervene to stop it turning into a cat fight.

[Wreckless Rat]

Suez was the UK, France and Israel. The US knocked it on the head.
The EU came about to stop France and Germany squabbling over strategic resources of coal and steel.

...and now they are ganging up to hoard strategic resources away from others, vaccines.

Hang on a sec, and check your bias. Aren't they under-resourced, which is why they don't want EU production exported? ? Isn't the one hoarding strategic resources the one with weekly supplies of 2m doses, (which you described as prolly more than they can use) ??

The UK hasn't actually banned exports, but yes, of course I have some bias, to suggest you don't is missing an inherent human trait. You for example have a bias against anything English.

If you actually read, I have said if the EU had gone about this differently, I would hold a different view. They didn't, they have charged in with their usual French & German arrogance, which is at the heart of the EU. Of course as a subservient race, the Irish are more willing to accept this.

[DefTrap]

This is boring now - very little that is genuinely informative.

I thought arsey politics wasn't happening on here? - or is it ok as it's 90% the righty drones?

[slowsider]

...and now they are ganging up to hoard strategic resources away from others, vaccines.

Hang on a sec, and check your bias. Aren't they under-resourced, which is why they don't want EU production exported? ? Isn't the one hoarding strategic resources the one with weekly supplies of 2m doses, (which you described as prolly more than they can use) ??

The UK hasn't actually banned exports, but yes, of course I have some bias, to suggest you don't is missing an inherent human trait. You for example have a bias against anything English.

If you actually read, I have said if the EU had gone about this differently, I would hold a different view. They didn't, they have charged in with their usual French & German arrogance, which is at the heart of the EU. Of course as a subservient race, the Irish are more willing to accept this.

So, ad hominem AND strawman AND logical fallacy, plus you still haven't addressed the substantive point that you can't hoard what you have a shortage of.

[weeksy]

That observation it itself should set the alarm bells jangling. Why is it do you think that the formerly robust conversations we all used to have on VD never appear on FaceBook?

Answer: big tech have entire teams of censors monitoring discussions. Freedom of expression has come to mean freedom to be excoriated, cancelled, sacked and potentially prosecuted for thought crime.

We have Mr Weeks, who can and will intervene to stop it turning into a cat fight.

Well yes... but i'm only stopping people being arseholes, i'm certainly not doing any of that !

[weeksy]

This is boring now - very little that is genuinely informative.

I thought arsey politics wasn't happening on here? - or is it ok as it's 90% the righty drones?

Fuck sake. I allow certain discussions and i'm pulled up on it, i don't allow them and i'm pulled up on it.

Can't win here.

This forum is what YOU ALL make it.. I'm posting 99% of my posts either in motorbike stuff or stuff to make you all behave.

[Wreckless Rat]

Hang on a sec, and check your bias. Aren't they under-resourced, which is why they don't want EU production exported? ? Isn't the one hoarding strategic resources the one with weekly supplies of 2m doses, (which you described as prolly more than they can use) ??

The UK hasn't actually banned exports, but yes, of course I have some bias, to suggest you don't is missing an inherent human trait. You for example have a bias against anything English.

If you actually read, I have said if the EU had gone about this differently, I would hold a different view. They didn't, they have charged in with their usual French & German arrogance, which is at the heart of the EU. Of course as a subservient race, the Irish are more willing to accept this.

So, ad hominem AND strawman AND logical fallacy, plus you still haven't addressed the substantive point that you can't hoard what you have a shortage of.

So in your mind, nowhere should send any vaccines anywhere, until they have an excess, ie - they are making more than they can use, or their population is fully vaccinated. Ireland may be waiting a while for some vaccines then.

and we are back to a point I made earlier. There was always going to be some forms of vaccine nationalism, hence partly why all those capable got on with making their own. Wars have been fought over less tbh. The UK has been very generous the covax program... not sure we can be said to be being selfish.

[slowsider]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

[DefTrap]

This is boring now - very little that is genuinely informative.

I thought arsey politics wasn't happening on here? - or is it ok as it's 90% the righty drones?

Fuck sake. I allow certain discussions and i'm pulled up on it, i don't allow them and i'm pulled up on it.

Can't win here.

This forum is what YOU ALL make it.. I'm posting 99% of my posts either in motorbike stuff or stuff to make you all behave.

Only asking. It's your place. I agree you can't win.

I only mention it because I've been pulled up on it officially twice a few months back, so i largely stopped contributing to anything that looked like it could be divisive. The last half dozen pages have been the typical 'boo hoo the EU hates us' nonsense, eff all to do with vaccine approval.